*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[gavinh87]

Although it does seem some B350 boards are achieving the same, if not high clocks than some X boards. It seems very down to the CPU rather than the motherboard. This maybe different with the Zen+,

I had more success with the crosshair than the tomahawk. My chips is admittedly a poor clocker [email protected] but I couldnt even get stable on the b350 at 3.8. In my experience and from what I've read the x370 can get the most out of them - especially poor clockers. Think back to the fx8350 and only 990fx could get the best from them. This could end up being the same for zen+ speculation of course but its a possibility.

 

[Scramz]

I had more success with the crosshair than the tomahawk. My chips is admittedly a poor clocker [email protected] but I couldnt even get stable on the b350 at 3.8. In my experience and from what I've read the x370 can get the most out of them - especially poor clockers. Think back to the fx8350 and only 990fx could get the best from them. This could end up being the same for zen+ speculation of course but its a possibility.

Strange because I have had no instability issues at 4.1Ghz on 1.50v and 4Ghz at 1.40v, even when playing with the RAM, been solid.

 

[harney]

I had more success with the crosshair than the tomahawk. My chips is admittedly a poor clocker [email protected] but I couldnt even get stable on the b350 at 3.8. In my experience and from what I've read the x370 can get the most out of them - especially poor clockers. Think back to the fx8350 and only 990fx could get the best from them. This could end up being the same for zen+ speculation of course but its a possibility.

I too have had no issues with the toma got two of them with the 1700's both can hit 4ghz but i prefer 3.6 with under volt less power
still tweaking this 1.3 bios seems to be helping
Both running mem @ 3200 14 14 14
Maybe you have a duff board ..

 

[gavinh87]

I too have had no issues with the toma got two of them with the 1700's both can hit 4ghz but i prefer 3.6 with under volt less power
still tweaking this 1.3 bios seems to be helping
Both running mem @ 3200 14 14 14
Maybe you have a duff board ..

Could well have. I booked an RMA with scam but never got round to sending it so it's just sat on my shelf lol. Might get a 1400 and throw that in and make something with it. I've also got some 3000 Corsair ram sat with it. Seems a waste to leave it on the shelf.

 

[harney]

Fantastic results over at XS Forums

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...-of-the-Jedi&p=5257260&viewfull=1#post5257260

 

[Boomstick777]

Man they are pumping out these BIOS updates. Performance just keeps getting better for me. R7 1700 really is a fast chip. Such a great price. Good job AMD !

 

[Scramz]

Fantastic results over at XS Forums

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...-of-the-Jedi&p=5257260&viewfull=1#post5257260

Look at the RAM! 7700K on 3000Mhz is about 44ns Latency.

1951 on cinebench at 4.2Ghz, seem right?

 

[gavinh87]

Look at the RAM! 7700K on 3000Mhz is about 44ns Latency.

It seems everyday people are posting faster speeds. I remember when we had rumours like 2666 if the fastest we will see.

 

[opethdisciple]

Yep. Loving my new 1700. At stock it's faster than my 3570k was at 4.4Ghz. This is in games.

 

[Lokken86]

That game is riddled with Gameworks features that badly handicapped AMD Hawaii and prior cards.
Polaris has a specific hardware Primitive Discard accelerator and improved tessellation processing to counter Gameworks.

If you look at Fallout 4 which is also riddled with Gameworks, the RX 480 matches the R9 Fury X, which is a much faster card. In fact both do horribly because of Gameworks in there, where even the Fury X is beaten by the 970.

Now with less and less companies using Gameworks, and more use of DX12 and Vulkan we can clearly see AMD is doing significantly better. Even more so if the AMD GPU is paired with Ryzen.
An extreme Example is Rise of the Tomb Raider, where 2x RX 480s, or the 2950X2 beat the current Titan X when paired with Ryzen.

AMD r9 Fury in DX12 Civ 6 beating GTX 1080

You say its riddled with gameworks like its some sort of infection that needs to be cleansed

 

[N19h7m4r3]

You say its riddled with gameworks like its some sort of infection that needs to be cleansed

Man, I've used NVIDIA for a looong time and honestly Gameworks isn't bad..it's how it's implemented; and if the developers decide to Pay Up for Source code.

The issue is, the eye candy doesn't nearly justify the performance hit. I loved Hairworks for the Witcher 3, I think it's fundamental in creating an amazing world.

The issue is, that it needed SLI 980/Tis or a Titan X to run with all the goodies turned on.
Then look at PhysX when it runs off the CPU, like in Project Cars. Obliterates performance on anything except the latest and greatest from NVIDIA, never mind poor AMD.

It also doesn't help that the majority of games it's usually included with a Buggy disasters. Hello Ubisoft, and WB Batman Arkham Knight. :/

I truly hope now that it's becoming more Open Source developers and AMD will use the Source Code to optimise and tailor the solution to their needs and performance requirements.

Just look at what was done in Rise of the Tomb Raider with "Pure Hair"; it was TressFX source code that was modified and tailored. The end result? a 4FPS drop in performance between OFF, and Max.
Trying that with Hairworks in the Witcher 3 would slice your FPS in half.

 

[opethdisciple]

Man, I've used NVIDIA for a looong time and honestly Gameworks isn't bad..it's how it's implemented; and if the developers decide to Pay Up for Source code.

The issue is, the eye candy doesn't nearly justify the performance hit. I loved Hairworks for the Witcher 3, I think it's fundamental in creating an amazing world.

The issue is, that it needed SLI 980/Tis or a Titan X to run with all the goodies turned on.
Then look at PhysX when it runs off the CPU, like in Project Cars. Obliterates performance on anything except the latest and greatest from NVIDIA, never mind poor AMD.

It also doesn't help that the majority of games it's usually included with a Buggy disasters. Hello Ubisoft, and WB Batman Arkham Knight. :/

I truly hope now that it's becoming more Open Source developers and AMD will use the Source Code to optimise and tailor the solution to their needs and performance requirements.

Just look at what was done in Rise of the Tomb Raider with "Pure Hair"; it was TressFX source code that was modified and tailored. The end result? a 4FPS drop in performance between OFF, and Max.
Trying that with Hairworks in the Witcher 3 would slice your FPS in half.

TressFX is not as good compared to HairWorks however.

Is Gameworks 'really' going open source? How committed are Nvidia to this?

 

[flopper]

It seems everyday people are posting faster speeds. I remember when we had rumours like 2666 if the fastest we will see.

Yep. Loving my new 1700. At stock it's faster than my 3570k was at 4.4Ghz. This is in games.

New ecosystem takes time to build and remove the kinks out.
waiting for my 1600 thats likely to arrive next week with easter and all.
Look forward to go red all red

 

[harney]

Look at the RAM! 7700K on 3000Mhz is about 44ns Latency.

1951 on cinebench at 4.2Ghz, seem right?

i know right just wish we could have 3400 3600 mem settings rather than pushing the blc bus clock i can not push my bus clocks as it would freak out the legacy pci sound cards

Yep. Loving my new 1700. At stock it's faster than my 3570k was at 4.4Ghz. This is in games.

That is what i like to hear

 

[N19h7m4r3]

TressFX is not as good compared to HairWorks however.

Is Gameworks 'really' going open source? How committed are Nvidia to this?

Aye, Pure Hair in that regard was only used for Lara, although the effects were significantly better compared to Geralt's hair in Hairworks.

NVIDIA's commitment is questionable at best, they're opening up their oldest and most used libraries for now.
PhysX, HBAO+, Hairworks and some others.
Here's what's currently available, although many are not yet.
https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks-source-github


We'll see if they keep it up and open everything, including the newest ones.
https://developer.nvidia.com/what-is-gameworks

 

[opethdisciple]

i know right just wish we could have 3400 3600 mem settings rather than pushing the blc bus clock i can not push my bus clocks as it would freak out the legacy pci sound cards



That is what i like to hear

Well I'm not actually measuring fps, I'm just going off of experience with my 3570k and how games feel now.

Currently playing Assasin Creed Syndicate which is CPU heavy and utilities all available cores. The game is not CPU bottlenecked that's for sure, I can even pump it up to ultra settings but have used MSAA2x rather than 4x out of personal preferences as IQ will be the same and I would like the fps back. This is with a 970 at 1200p. I'm waiting for Vega to decided on a new card and monitor combo.

 

[Lokken86]

Man, I've used NVIDIA for a looong time and honestly Gameworks isn't bad..it's how it's implemented; and if the developers decide to Pay Up for Source code.

The issue is, the eye candy doesn't nearly justify the performance hit. I loved Hairworks for the Witcher 3, I think it's fundamental in creating an amazing world.

The issue is, that it needed SLI 980/Tis or a Titan X to run with all the goodies turned on.
Then look at PhysX when it runs off the CPU, like in Project Cars. Obliterates performance on anything except the latest and greatest from NVIDIA, never mind poor AMD.

It also doesn't help that the majority of games it's usually included with a Buggy disasters. Hello Ubisoft, and WB Batman Arkham Knight. :/

I truly hope now that it's becoming more Open Source developers and AMD will use the Source Code to optimise and tailor the solution to their needs and performance requirements.

Just look at what was done in Rise of the Tomb Raider with "Pure Hair"; it was TressFX source code that was modified and tailored. The end result? a 4FPS drop in performance between OFF, and Max.
Trying that with Hairworks in the Witcher 3 would slice your FPS in half.

Obviously I'm not the biggest Nvidia guy on here but back when I still used Nvidia they were great. Affordable and fast. Simple.
Gameworks I see is designed for 2 things. Hurt the competition performance and worse, hurt their own lower end cards in order to get people buying Titans.
I'm glad gameworks is flopping.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

Obviously I'm not the biggest Nvidia guy on here but back when I still used Nvidia they were great. Affordable and fast. Simple.
Gameworks I see is designed for 2 things. Hurt the competition performance and worse, hurt their own lower end cards in order to get people buying Titans.
I'm glad gameworks is flopping.

I experienced the performance degradation first hand with many Gameworks features. Let's not forget when the Witcher 3 launched that Kepler was doing so badly that it was near useless.

The backlash was so hard that NVIDIA had to "fix" the driver shortly there after.

I do like some of the features, and I'm so glad PhysX and Hairworks are going open source. I'd love to see what canbe done with AMD optimising their drivers with the Source Code, and what developers can finally do; without simply relying on an Ad Hoc solution.

 

[opethdisciple]

I experienced the performance degradation first hand with many Gameworks features. Let's not forget when the Witcher 3 launched that Kepler was doing so badly that it was near useless.

The backlash was so hard that NVIDIA had to "fix" the driver shortly there after.

I do like some of the features, and I'm so glad PhysX and Hairworks are going open source. I'd love to see what canbe done with AMD optimising their drivers with the Source Code, and what developers can finally do; without simply relying on an Ad Hoc solution.

The issue is a lot of AAA titles are using gameworks. Most of the last AAA titles have used GameWorks or been Nvidia sponsored.

To name just a few:

WatchDogs 2, For Honor (not necessarily AAA), Wild Lands, Division.....

Actually come to think about it what I have listed there are just Ubisoft games... hmm

 

[Apache14]

Actually come to think about it what I have listed there are just Ubisoft games... hmm

Its almost like Ubisoft get a lot of money from the nVidia gameworks deal