Pro Cycling Discussion 2018

physichull · 21 Jul 2018 at 23:01

Berger said:
Wiggins saga.

Henao altitude native...

Tiernan-Locke biological passport (dehydrated after heavy drinking excuse not accepted).

No cleaner or dirtier than any other team, they all have skeletons in the closet and histories as well as individuals acting on their own.

People just aren’t a fan due to the huge budget and supposed strangulation of the sport but I think that’s just a modernisation of it.

Look at Barguil this year, crap compared to when he was on a WT team, gotta be down to all the little extras they can afford to provide and you know Sky will be doing them all and then some plus having the best team to start with.

One only has to look as far as Movistar and in particular the likes of Valverde, who is a convicted doper, and wonder why the French public don't jeer and protest against his presence in the tour. It strikes me as a more than just a doping issue as to why they hate Team Sky so much, perhaps its a little more nationalistic and anti-Britain? Maybe.

Berger · 21 Jul 2018 at 23:25

It’s because he looks ugly on a bike!

If he had a great tan and looked fantastic pedalling and attacking then he would be adored.

He’s a pasty faced washing machine praying mantis and it’s effective but looks terrible

One More Solo · 22 Jul 2018 at 05:28

physichull said:
I'm still not sure what you are getting at here. Are you trying to say that Chris Froomes performance on that stage was dishonest? Because frankly, there is no evidence for it, so why therefore (and I'm presuming this from your "farce" remark) would you start off in the position that Froomes performance that day was dishonest?

Because I don’t believe the level of performance Froome showed in that stage is possible for a clean rider.

physichull said:
One only has to look as far as Movistar and in particular the likes of Valverde, who is a convicted doper, and wonder why the French public don't jeer and protest against his presence in the tour. It strikes me as a more than just a doping issue as to why they hate Team Sky so much, perhaps its a little more nationalistic and anti-Britain? Maybe.

It works both ways though, don’t you think? If Sky were Russian and dominating the insinuations would be off the scale. Instead we accept them doing unprecedented things because they’re British.

It’s a bit like athletics. Russia turned out to be state doping its team and everyone is aghast, yet we, a nation of far fewer people and comparable resources, finished above them in the medal table. I didn’t see much comment in the press or elsewhere about that.

SoliD · 22 Jul 2018 at 07:22

Jimbeam3678 said:
What time was he on or how many miles were left? Got it recorded so want to catch that bit.

Cheers

He was on about na hour or so in for a good hour I reckon. I'm not a big wiggins fan so it surprised me how well he came across.

Made some.comments about how the French liked him and sky back in 2012 because he sucked up to the French press and how the French public as a whole don't like repeat winners even turning on hinault and anquetil back in the day.

physichull · 22 Jul 2018 at 08:10

One More Solo said:
Because I don’t believe the level of performance Froome showed in that stage is possible for a clean rider.

Why don't you though, there is no evidence for it.

Jimbeam3678 · 22 Jul 2018 at 08:13

physichull said:
Why don't you though, there is no evidence for it.

My problem isn't with Sky, they have released their data. Why don't Giant release theirs for Thomas then a direct comparison could be made. Why would they do that? For the integrity of cycling ?

I take all performances at face value otherwise why bother watching ?

Bear · 22 Jul 2018 at 11:03

One More Solo said:
It’s a bit like athletics. Russia turned out to be state doping its team and everyone is aghast, yet we, a nation of far fewer people and comparable resources, finished above them in the medal table. I didn’t see much comment in the press or elsewhere about that.

If you go down that line of argument then how does a country like Australia traditionally do so well at so many different sports, are they also doping?

On a different note, I see Mark Madiot is **** stirring trying to stoke up the public, the French can’t help themselves, such unsporting, sulky, sore losers

Berger · 22 Jul 2018 at 12:52

Australia, much better sporting culture and less barriers to get into sport.

Bear · 22 Jul 2018 at 13:25

Berger said:
Australia, much better sporting culture and less barriers to get into sport.

That is certainly true, but since the UK has spent lots of money from lottery funding the UK has caught up some what.

One More Solo · 22 Jul 2018 at 17:36

Jimbeam3678 said:
My problem isn't with Sky, they have released their data. Why don't Giant release theirs for Thomas then a direct comparison could be made. Why would they do that? For the integrity of cycling ?

I take all performances at face value otherwise why bother watching ?

Did Sunweb state they were setting up a team to win the Tour clean with full transparency? Because that is what Sky claimed, yet all the data we are given is carefully controlled by them and a lot of it is subsequently shown to be bunkum (e.g. their Froome power data from last year’s Tour where he apparently put out fewer w/kg to ride faster than several other riders who published theirs independently). Exercises like embedding journalists in the team are just PR stunts (David Walsh apparently had full access to the team during the period we now know Wiggins was getting triamcinolone injections under TUEs).

I’m wholly realistic about what goes on across cycling and as a fan of the sport it personally doesn’t bother me - I know that is hard for people to understand. What frustrates me is hypocrisy and inconsistency. Sky asked to be held to high standards and certain people have become very wealthy as a result of their success. It’s only right they are held to those standards.

Berger · 22 Jul 2018 at 22:09

Moscon removed from the tour for punching another rider, what a delightful chap he is.

Needs to go a few rounds with Bouhanni and then the pair of them dissappear from the sport. Bouhanni is halfway there already through his own actions or lack of.

a1ex2001 · 23 Jul 2018 at 10:52

Berger said:
Moscon removed from the tour for punching another rider, what a delightful chap he is.

Needs to go a few rounds with Bouhanni and then the pair of them dissappear from the sport. Bouhanni is halfway there already through his own actions or lack of.

Surely he will be looking for a new team he is a liability!

SoliD · 23 Jul 2018 at 12:16

The bloke is clearly a little bit of a loon, a real shame as he has shown promise. Guessing he won't ride for Sky again. Was reported it happened 800m into the race yesterday.

touch · 23 Jul 2018 at 14:25

SoliD said:
Was reported it happened 800m into the race yesterday.

Within the neutralised zone. But just because they are not officially racing at that point doesn't mean it's like a sunday club run. There's a lot of fighting for position going on and it's still pretty fast (27-30mph). On a stage like that, I guess it's probably the most stressful part after the wind-up for the bunch sprint so I can image the riders could easily get into arguments. Still no excuse for punch-ups though.

edit: just seen the replay. Wasn't in the neutralised zone as I'd thought.

Murf · 23 Jul 2018 at 14:35

He's had previous issues with racially abusing another rider and getting kicked out of a race for holding on to a team car. Unbelievable.

Bear · 23 Jul 2018 at 17:09

Murf said:
He's had previous issues with racially abusing another rider and getting kicked out of a race for holding on to a team car. Unbelievable.

Not the racial abuse thing but holding onto team cars isnt such an unbelievable thing, even Nibali has been kicked out of a race for it and some would say Nibali's effort was far worse. No excuse for any racial abuse though.

Moscon does seem to have a serious attitude problem.

Roady · 23 Jul 2018 at 17:22

One More Solo said:
Did Sunweb state they were setting up a team to win the Tour clean with full transparency?
<snip>
What frustrates me is hypocrisy and inconsistency. Sky asked to be held to high standards and certain people have become very wealthy as a result of their success. It’s only right they are held to those standards.

No Sunweb didn't state that, but they certainly insinuated it and claimed themselves as more transparent than Sky would ever be as they're part of MPCC. So any of their riders under an AAF would not be able to ride, same as other MPCC members (which I think is around 60% of the Peloton?).

So the argument really should be why 60% of the Peloton are not members of the MPCC or why 60% of the Peloton feel that the UCI/WADA rules are not enough. Which leads nicely into the end point - I totally agree inconsistency is at fault but read into that how the various french publications, outspoken french public figures etc are able to tar Sky's reputation without recourse, without respecting privacy they would give other teams/riders and without facts. Their actions damage cycling far more than team Sky ever could. Their fake news have wound the french public up far more and made the actions of roadside 'spectators' verge on what I would class as hooliganism. The same as the idiots in football!

Has anyone said what the UCI are going to do about the guy that punched G/Froome on stage 12, or the spectators who caused the Nibali crash? They're ultimately responsible - barriers where there, with 90% of the spectators INSIDE them. :rolleyes:

Berger said:
Moscon removed from the tour for punching another rider, what a delightful chap he is.

Needs to go a few rounds with Bouhanni and then the pair of them dissappear from the sport. Bouhanni is halfway there already through his own actions or lack of.

Would buy a ticket! Just a shame as Moscon is suck a versatile and otherwise incredible rider. Wasted talent! Same with Bouhanni... Same with Tony Martin!

Bear · 23 Jul 2018 at 17:45

I agree with Roady, the people that really damaged cycling were the UCI and the various French comentators (Hinault, La Partient, Madiot) which stoked up the French press. Then on top of that, Brailsford should keep his mouth shut as he hasnt helped at all and again today shot his mouth off.

The MPCC is a pointless organisation. If the organisations rules are genuinely credible, then it should be incorporated into the UCI rule book, there is no need for the organisation to exist.

touch · 23 Jul 2018 at 18:38

Roady said:
Would buy a ticket! Just a shame as Moscon is suck a versatile and otherwise incredible rider. Wasted talent! Same with Bouhanni... Same with Tony Martin!

Did I miss something? What has Tony Martin done?

One More Solo · 23 Jul 2018 at 19:44

The MPCC only exists because the UCI and WADA have shown themselves to be barely credible repeatedly (with rules which seem to curiously vary depending on how good you are). Of course, it’s not a good organisation to join if you’re planning to smash a load of corticosteroids out of competition to get your GT team as skinny as possible.

Do you really think the French are manufacturing controversy around Sky? I think Sky have done a pretty good job themselves between the dodgy TUEs, doping doctors, miraculous rider transformations, racist domestique, Jiffy bag etc.