Today's mass shooting in the US

[CREATIVE!11]

You can make the same argument about conservative Islam in general... plenty of Islamist attackers regurgitate stuff from the Koran, see their victims as "infidels" etc... I suspect you'd have a double standard there though.

It is incorrect to do so in either case IMO.

Whenever we have an Islamic terrorist attack, twitter is all #NotAllMuslims etc religion of peace etc...

A right wing fringe racist? ALL WHITE MEN ARE DISGUSTING RACISTS AND TRUMP IS 100% TO BLAME etc on twitter.

I guess they can't seem to spot their own double standards?

 

[neckbeardthethird]

Are we allowed to point out the growing trend of far right terrorism yet ? We're all about criticising ideology after all aren't we. Its almost undeniable at this point if you start to tot up the amount of attacks (successful and failed) around various parts of the world. Clearly the libs fault though, they drove them to this with their globalisation or something.

 

[Craterloads]

Whenever we have an Islamic terrorist attack, twitter is all #NotAllMuslims etc religion of peace etc...

A right wing fringe racist? ALL WHITE MEN ARE DISGUSTING RACISTS AND TRUMP IS 100% TO BLAME etc on twitter.

I guess they can't seem to spot their own double standards?

Isn’t it usually literally the opposite on here?

 

[Roar87]

. AA

A man who wanted to ban all Muslims from coming to America isn't a extremist?

By that one action alone it proves his extremism.

His words encourage hate, they encourage a us and them attitude. He is divisive and helping white supremacists either unknowingly or deliberately.

We're not talking about Islamic extremists, you don't need to bring them into every thread. Keep on topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769#Affected_locations

Which one of those countries having a travel ban were you most unhappy with?

 

[dowie]

Whenever we have an Islamic terrorist attack, twitter is all #NotAllMuslims etc religion of peace etc...

A right wing fringe racist? ALL WHITE MEN ARE DISGUSTING RACISTS AND TRUMP IS 100% TO BLAME etc on twitter.

I guess they can't seem to spot their own double standards?

Pretty much, it is wrong in both cases but people seem so blind to it (as demonstrated in this thread)

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Pretty much, it is wrong in both cases but people seem so blind to it (as demonstrated in this thread)

.................................

 

[VincentHanna]

Whenever we have an Islamic terrorist attack, twitter is all #NotAllMuslims etc religion of peace etc...

A right wing fringe racist? ALL WHITE MEN ARE DISGUSTING RACISTS AND TRUMP IS 100% TO BLAME etc on twitter.

I guess they can't seem to spot their own double standards?

When there has been an Islamic attack in the past, on here people like me have said "These are extremists, you can't tar billions of Muslims with the same brush"

However, nobody on here has made the argument that "all white men are disgusting racists"...what with most of us being white men.

It's clear Trump's rhetoric is emboldening people like the shooter though. There used to be plenty of mass shootings, but I don't remember a time when a lot of them had racist right wing manifestos talking about migration as a huge issue.

 

[Felon]

Basically exactly what I said, not only "mostly decent" but actually in general very friendly and polite, more so than people are over here.

That's because you misunderstood what I said in the first place, because I was referring to society as a whole - which in the US is badly broken and incredibly backwards, that doesn't mean I feel that way about the individuals that make up that society, because individuals are not societies, the two things are totally different and behave in different ways.

My criticism of US society as it applies to problems such as mass shootings, relates more towards how these issues are caused by having a society that's based around an extremely intense ideology of money worship, essentially; 'live or die'. Where the people who make it, end up with everything and the people who don't end up feeling disenfranchised and left behind, they turn towards 'other things' to take out their frustrations.

You end up with a society thats extremely reactive and extremely angry, full of echo-chambers, full of disenfranchised people, or people who feel that way, a society like that is going to have very serious problems.

 

[Dis86]

Anyone know if the rate of these events has increased since Trump took charge?

 

[hurfdurf]

Its a terrible day when you have to defend Trump but please research all the cliche quotes that are often misquoted.
Many out of context and truncated to mean a whole different thing.
The guy does say a ton of idiotic, short sighted stuff, but so much is reappropriated to push agendas by both sides. People should listen to each other.

Lol look at this Trump apologist.

 

[Efour]

Lol look at this Trump apologist.

If being a Trump Apologist means not making stuff up, then, yes im guilty.

“When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity. […] When Mexico sends its people they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you; they’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting.”

Fake News right? Interpret it how you want. Whatever Side you want to be on.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

When there has been an Islamic attack in the past, on here people like me have said "These are extremists, you can't tar billions of Muslims with the same brush"

However, nobody on here has made the argument that "all white men are disgusting racists"...what with most of us being white men.

It's clear Trump's rhetoric is emboldening people like the shooter though. There used to be plenty of mass shootings, but I don't remember a time when a lot of them had racist right wing manifestos talking about migration as a huge issue.

I'm not gonna disagree, there is definitely brewing tension under the surface in America.

 

[easyrider]

Being pro or anti immigration are legitimate political positions regardless of the desire for people to get emotive about the topic. I'd not say that someone is personally responsible for it, likewise to some someone making a decision to leave the EU etc.. these are legit political positions.

OK, being anti immigration is a political position.

But there is away of handling such a sensitive topic. It should be handled with professionalism and tact...

The most powerful man in the world should not be engaged in theatrical hate rhetoric on the world stage.

His hate speech, his narrative, his whole demeanour normalises hate and this then trickles down into the subconsciousness of the masses.

If one person listens to trump and takes his speech on board and decides to shoot Mexicans then regardless of your opinion of trump he has played a part...directly or indirectly.

And if you think that splitting up families and starving kids at the Mexican border is not extremist then you're an idiot.

 

[StriderX]

If being a Trump Apologist means not making stuff up, then, yes im guilty.

So you see zero connection between the language of racists "go back home" and this guys manifesto? Really?

Be a gaslighter if you want, it doesnt fool and just ***** on these people's graves.

 

[dowie]

OK, being anti immigration is a political position.

But there is away of handling such a sensitive topic. It should be handled with professionalism and tact...

The most powerful man in the world should not be engaged in theatrical hate rhetoric on the world stage.

His hate speech, his narrative, his whole demeanour normalises hate and this then trickles down into the subconsciousness of the masses.

If one person listens to trump and takes his speech on board and decides to shoot Mexicans then regardless of your opinion of trump he has played a part...directly or indirectly.

And if you think that splitting up families and starving kids at the Mexican border is not extremist then you're an idiot.

If you think that child marriages are OK then you're an idiot.

Where did I post anything about splitting up families at the Mexican border? You're all over the place here, try to deal with what has been posted. You're just ranting, not liking Trump or disagreeing with his policies or how he presents himself is missing the point here.

 

[Efour]

So you see zero connection between the language of racists "go back home" and this guys manifesto? Really?

Be a gaslighter if you want, it doesn't fool and just ***** on these people's graves.

I've said before i couldn't give a **** how many Americans decide to shoot each other over nonsense that plays no role in my european life.
Should have allowed him to build the stupid wall and maybe their would be a few less dead. All the nutjobs might have been appeased.

 

[StriderX]

I've said before i couldn't give a **** how many Americans decide to shoot each other over nonsense that plays no role in my european life.
Should have allowed him to build the stupid wall and maybe their would be a few less dead. All the nutjobs might have been appeased.

Oh boy, you really think it has no effect, what about Breivik, you really think he had no connections to American extremists? Still trying to make it out to be an isolated event, foolish.

And appeasement doesn't work, you should know this, and we know for a fact that the wall would have done very little about the flow, it's a vanity project.

A wall would not have stopped this piece of **** from murdering people, because he's a supremacist or at best a provocateur. Regardless an impossible situation to solve as it means genocide.

 

[MissChief]

Being pro or anti immigration are legitimate political positions regardless of the desire for people to get emotive about the topic. I'd not say that someone is personally responsible for it, likewise to some someone making a decision to leave the EU etc.. these are legit political positions.

You might well find that continued criticism of the West can end up having a side effect too, but that isn't goal necessarily and criticism of the west is also a perfectly legitimate position.

If you're going to attribute blame then I think citing unintended side effects, if they are indeed a result of the position taken, is a bit tenuous.



I don't particularly want to get into defending stuff Trump has said as the more simple minded posters seem to get triggered and interpret it as support for him etc.. AFAIK he was referring to criminal migrants.

Regardless you can again make similar arguments about mainstream conservative Islamic clerics/critics of Western foreign policy.

I think it is highly dubious and I suspect that a lot of the people making the argument against Trump in this context wouldn't do so in the other context.

From one of his speeches in 2016:

These aren't people. These are animals."

"California's law provides safe harbor to some of the most vicious and violent offenders on Earth, like MS-13 gang members putting innocent men, women, and children at the mercy of these sadistic criminals,"


"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best," “They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

 

[dowie]

Yeah like I said:

I don't particularly want to get into defending stuff Trump has said as the more simple minded posters seem to get triggered and interpret it as support for him etc.. AFAIK he was referring to criminal migrants.

And that is what you've just confirmed:

From one of his speeches in 2016:

These aren't people. These are animals."

"California's law provides safe harbor to some of the most vicious and violent offenders on Earth, like MS-13 gang members putting innocent men, women, and children at the mercy of these sadistic criminals,"

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best," “They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

 

[Efour]

Oh boy, you really think it has no effect, what about Breivik, you really think he had no connections to American extremists? Still trying to make it out to be an isolated event, foolish.

And appeasement doesn't work, you should know this, and we know for a fact that the wall would have done very little about the flow, it's a vanity project.

A wall would not have stopped this piece of **** from murdering people, because he's a supremacist.

Dont see what Breviks 2011 insanity has to do with Donald Trump atall.
The wall might save more lives as a deterrent, actually dont care how many mexicans die, trying to cross to America if im honest.

Yes you are right about it not stopping mentally deranged people having access to guns.