E-Scooter discussion after fatal collision

moon man · 14 Dec 2019 at 18:00

yeh most batteries can be removed unless built into the frame.
seen this under 15kg but i cant find a reveiw
https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/159330...MjOJkG6sat0EtytIpPUaAqpQEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

ediit apart from those 3 reviews on website !

Energize · 14 Dec 2019 at 18:18

Orionaut said:
The problem isn't the going as such, it is the stopping.

In urban areas one needs to be able to come to a full stop within 2-3 seconds since that is your safety event horizon.

This is why you do not want to be traveling at more than 30 in a car (And in many cases not even that fast)

There is no way you could brake a pedal cycle from 30 to a complete halt in 2 seconds. (Well, not in my experience anyway. Feel free to prove me wrong)

And I doubt if you could bring a stand on scooter to a halt in that time at anything much over jogging speed (If that).

Hydraulic disk brakes will bring a bike to stop in that time, it's just a question of whether the rider would stay on.

30mph in 3 seconds is 0.44g which is manageable.

jpaul · 14 Dec 2019 at 20:29

NVP said:
6'4" + ~100kg = 'definitely not little'

Hi, let me introduce you to my (apparently not) little friend

it was a rewording of Tony Montanas say hello to my little (m16 machine gun) friend - That would scare the children

NVP · 14 Dec 2019 at 20:35

Haha you didn't need to explain that, as if you weren't then your post would have just been weird

Lokwyr · 14 Dec 2019 at 21:59

Cleisthenes said:
Please stop finding excuses to boost your post count. The free delivery isn't worth it!

You'll only end up getting your count reset anyway.

My count approx. 90 in one year.
Your count 7375 in approx. 6 years= approx. 1229 per year.
So I'm boosting???

ubersonic · 14 Dec 2019 at 22:10

Lokwyr said:
My count approx. 90 in one year.
Your count 7375 in approx. 6 years= approx. 1229 per year.
So I'm boosting???

You shouldn't own people like that, slavery is illegal xD

Lokwyr · 15 Dec 2019 at 09:36

Pedal cycles and all motorized cycles, no matter how powerful/ fast/ small/not so fast were required to have two independently operated brake systems. Switching-off the motive power did not count.
Similarly, they were also required to have a suitable working means of audible warning of approach.
If used in the lighting-up times, front and rear lights, plus a rear reflector are necessary.
The fact that the police cannot (manpower, time, finance resources) act against the transgressions does not make the case for anarchic behaviour being desirable.
If the e-scoots are made to comply with what used to be called The Construction And Use Regulations and the riders were subject to the same legal provisions as other powered road vehicle operators the situation would become much different.
For those who clamour for their rights should also remember their responsibilities to society.
That is how civilisation evolved.

SexyGreyFox · 15 Dec 2019 at 09:53

Another point that may still be valid is that both of my e-Bikes are technically illegal (I think) because I have taken normal bikes and put e-Kits on them.
The reason I didn't go the self build route 6 years ago was because a bike you self build should then go through testing to make sure it is OK to use and I was seeing quotes of a £1000 for the testing. Obviously e-Bike manufacturers have this testing done on their prototypes and then are able to build millions of them.
When I was hit by a car the Copper actually looked at my bike to see if the motor was 250 watt and said "Well at least you're legal" but I'm pretty sure the bike could have been taken because it's converted, perhaps someone can clarify this.
Now looking at Energise's reply about any decent bike with hydraulic disk brakes being able to stop easily does ring true with my MTB but my Trek 7,5FX with normal caliper brakes doesn't have the same stopping power and if I had put a 1000 watt motor on that I would have been wrapped round a tree by now.

jpaul · 15 Dec 2019 at 22:11

opposition from an unexpected adversary

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/activists...catastrophic-e-scooters-france-142722073.html 5dec

The radical environmental activist group Extinction Rebellion on Thursday claimed the sabotage of 3,600 electric scooters in Paris and other French cities, saying the green image of the fashionable gadgets hid an "ecologically catastrophic" reality.

Its action came as thousands of commuters in Paris took to the scooters in a bid to overcome a nationwide strike in France that is expected to paralyse public transport across the country for days.

Extinction Rebellion said it had sabotaged 3,600 scooters, including over 2,000 in Paris as well as in Bordeaux and Lyon, by obscuring the QR codes that riders use to unlock them with their smartphones

horse & cart ?

NVP · 15 Dec 2019 at 22:14

I think I need to see their working before I comment on how idiotic extremist groups can be

Trifid · 16 Dec 2019 at 06:55

jpaul said:
opposition from an unexpected adversary
?

I think they are telling us we should drive everywhere in our own cars with no passengers.

jpaul · 16 Dec 2019 at 07:55

the article comments, on the relatively high carbon footprint of the e-scooters and their Green capitalist labelling does have some merit;
the gilet jaune legitimately started with the government hiking diesel tax so unfairly penalising those who can't afford an EV;
but maybe the ex Mi5/6 boss comment that Extreb had an underlying anarchism goal also has some weight

Guest2 · 16 Dec 2019 at 09:28

RIP
Onto e-scooters...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48968912

While the cause of the crash is unknown, e-scooters are illegal to ride on public roads, including in cycle lanes or on the pavement.

Where can you ride them then? What about electric unicycles? I have seen a few people with these recently riding them on the pavement
This sort of thing if you are unsure, I always need to remind myself of the name of them - https://www.rcgeeks.co.uk/transport/electric-one-wheels/inmotion-v10-electric-unicycle

NVP · 16 Dec 2019 at 10:16

I know a couple dealers who use them, obviously they dont care for the law, to get in and around neighbourhoods where cars wouldn't be able to follow etc.

Dis86 · 16 Dec 2019 at 10:31

Guest2 said:
RIP
Onto e-scooters...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48968912

Where can you ride them then? What about electric unicycles? I have seen a few people with these recently riding them on the pavement
This sort of thing if you are unsure, I always need to remind myself of the name of them - https://www.rcgeeks.co.uk/transport/electric-one-wheels/inmotion-v10-electric-unicycle

Private land.

jpaul · 16 Dec 2019 at 11:06

couple of weeks back thought ITV programme about e-scooters was completely irresponsible,
watched it to see at what point they would say they were illegal on highway/pavement ... which was just thrown in, as a final/small-print comment. ... didn't look t see if it was reported.

Swifty’s big wheel adult scooters have been back on primetime TV this weekend as part of ITV’s ‘How to Spend It Well at Christmas with Phillip Schofield’. Swifty lent the show one of our electric folding SwiftyONE-e scooters to be put through its paces and reviewed alongside some other popular powered transporters.

Guest2 · 16 Dec 2019 at 18:36

Dis86 said:
Private land.

So someone is within their rights to carry out a citizens arrest on someone riding an e-scooter / e-unicylce / e-whatever on the pavement or road?

b0rn2sk8 · 16 Dec 2019 at 18:42

Guest2 said:
So someone is within their rights to carry out a citizens arrest on someone riding an e-scooter / e-unicylce / e-whatever on the pavement or road?

No.

Energize · 17 Dec 2019 at 19:03

b0rn2sk8 said:
No.

I'd be thinking yes.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/section/24A

24A Arrest without warrant: other persons

(1)A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—

(a)anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;

(b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.

jpaul said:
opposition from an unexpected adversary

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/activists...catastrophic-e-scooters-france-142722073.html 5dec

horse & cart ?

The utter stupidity, sabotaging clean electric vehicles powered by clean nuclear power.

b0rn2sk8 · 17 Dec 2019 at 20:36

Energize said:
I'd be thinking yes.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/section/24A

The utter stupidity, sabotaging clean electric vehicles powered by clean nuclear power.

Id suggest reading slightly further in the legislation, you can not just take the first clause in isolation. You need to look at paragraph 1-4 together. You also need to need to consider what an ‘indictable offence’ is, that will have a specific meaning in law.

(1)A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—

(a)anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;

(b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.

(2)Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—

(a)anyone who is guilty of the offence;

(b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.

(3)But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if—

(a)the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and

(b)it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead.

(4)The reasons are to prevent the person in question—

(a)causing physical injury to himself or any other person;

(b)suffering physical injury;

(c)causing loss of or damage to property; or

(d)making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.

So, someone assaulting another person and there is no police around to make an arrest -yes. The London Bridge incident is a good example of this.

Someone riding an electric scooter? No, that’s not what the law was intended for. Would you try and make a citizens arrest on someone speeding for instance?

Edit: A driving offence is a summary offence so it’s not ‘indictable’ so this doesn’t apply.

https://www.judiciary.uk/you-and-the-judiciary/going-to-court/magistrates-court/