Donald Trump

[doodah]

No. I watched it all.
And these "dozen witnesses" saw or heard nothing.
They was asked that very question. Non answered.

Well at least we know you're not objective whatsoever.

 

[Jono8]

Are there any Democrats involved in Trump's impeachment who don't have family members on the boards of Ukrainian energy companies? it's no wonder Biden threatened to withhold $1billion unless the Ukraine prosecutor investigating dodgy dealings involving one of the companies got fired. The prosecutor could have probably taken down half of the Democrat leadership.

Pelosi's son was just holding important meetings with the Ukraine government and bankers over a youth soccer programme, honest.

A. The investigation into Burisma was actually stalled and not going anywhere under the guy that got fired.

B. The allegations against Burisma were to do with conduct BEFORE Hunter even joined them.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...over-period-before-biden-joined-idUSKBN1WC1LV

But it said the period under investigation was 2010-2012, and noted that this was before the company hired Hunter Biden.

“Changes to the board of Burisma Limited, which are currently the object of international attention, took place only in May 2014, and therefore are not and never were the subject of (the anti-corruption bureau’s) investigation,” the bureau’s statement said.

C. A prosecutor being fired doesnt just magically make an investigation go away.

You have ZERO proof that Biden's son has done anything wrong in relation to Burisma and ZERO proof that Biden ordered the firing of said prosecutor because of Burisma.

Furthermore, even if this fantasy in your read was real, it STILL does not excuse Trump of doing what he did.

 

[deuse]

So Biden and his son, Hunter are going to be called to appear.

 

[Sankari]

Biden is on the run

"Biden reiterates that he won't testify in a Senate impeachment trial"

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/27/politics/joe-biden-senate-impeachment-trial-testify/index.html

Double standards by the Dems again.

Biden has now said he will testify. Still think he's on the run?

So Biden and his son, Hunter are going to be called to appear.

LOL, Republicans desperately trying to flip the script. Good luck with that.

 

[Concrete]

Biden has now said he will testify. Still think he's on the run?



LOL, Republicans desperately trying to flip the script. Good luck with that.

I've gone from thinking that he's in full on damage control to a grudging amount of respect while I wait for my extra large box of popcorn to be prepared.

I mean this is a man not known for his eloquence, about to step into a firing squad of everything/one that the Republicans have already lined up for him.

And the democrats have already set the rules of engagement, there are none.

Glad I'm not American, but this is going to be fun.

 

[Sankari]

No, where does it state that telling the Ukranes to back off Burisma is international governmental policy?

It was a policy developed by the US, the EU, and the IMF.

Biden was among the many Western officials who pressed for the removal of Shokin because he actually was not investigating the corruption endemic to the country.

Indeed, he was not investigating Burisma at the time. In September 2015, then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt publicly criticized Shokin’s office for thwarting a British money-laundering probe into Burisma’s owner, Mykola Zlochevsky.

“Shokin was not investigating. He didn’t want to investigate Burisma,” Daria Kaleniuk, of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center, told The Washington Post in July. “And Shokin was fired not because he wanted to do that investigation, but quite to the contrary, because he failed that investigation.”

In a 2018 appearance at the Council on Foreign Relations, Biden bragged about his role in Shokin’s removal, saying he had withheld $1 billion in loan guarantees as leverage to force action. But Biden was carrying out a policy developed at the State Department and coordinated with the European Union and the International Monetary Fund.

The Ukrainian prosecutor was regarded as a failure, and “Joe Biden’s efforts to oust Shokin were universally praised,” said Anders Aslund, a Swedish economist heavily involved in Eastern European market reforms.

Getting rid of Shokin was considered the linchpin of reform efforts, but U.S. officials had a list of changes the government needed to make before it could obtain another loan guarantee.

In December 2015, Biden traveled to Kiev and decried the “cancer of corruption” in the country in a speech to the parliament. “The Office of the General Prosecutor desperately needs reform,” he noted.

Shokin was removed from office three months later, and Biden announced April 15 that the loan guarantee would go forward; the agreement between the United States and Ukraine was signed June 3.

(Source).

False: Biden pushed out a Ukrainian prosecutor investigating his son
Trump has falsely claimed that Biden in 2015 pressured the Ukrainian government to fire Viktor Shokin, the top Ukrainian prosecutor, because he was investigating Ukraine’s largest private gas company, Burisma, which had added Biden’s son, Hunter, to its board in 2014.

...Indeed, he was not investigating Burisma at the time. In September 2015, then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt publicly criticized Shokin’s office for thwarting a British money-laundering probe into Burisma’s owner, Mykola Zlochevsky.

...One can certainly raise questions about Hunter Biden’s judgment in joining Burisma’s board at a time his father had a high-profile role in working with Ukraine’s government. But by continuing to claim that Biden “did” something for his son, Trump persists in spreading a false narrative about a diplomatic maneuver hailed at the time as a step toward reducing corruption in Ukraine.

(Source).

Also, lots of countries agreed to go to war in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya, didn't make it right though - did it?

Irrelevant.

 

[Sankari]

No. I watched it all.
And these "dozen witnesses" saw or heard nothing.

Wrong. Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman and Jennifer William both raised the alarm on the basis of what they had heard.

“The president can choose to use the talking points or not, he’s the president,” Vindman said. But what Trump spoke about instead on the second call – investigations of Biden and the gas company Burisma – sparked Vindman to action.

“Without hesitation, I knew that I had to report this to the White House counsel,” he said. “I had concerns and it was my duty to report my concerns to the proper people in the chain of command.”

 

[Sankari]

I've gone from thinking that he's in full on damage control to a grudging amount of respect while I wait for my extra large box of popcorn to be prepared.

I mean this is a man not known for his eloquence, about to step into a firing squad of everything/one that the Republicans have already lined up for him.

And the democrats have already set the rules of engagement, there are none.

Glad I'm not American, but this is going to be fun.

What exactly do you expect Republicans to do with Biden? He's being called as a witness in the trial of Trump. Nothing else is relevant. Biden is not on trial here. They can throw as much mud as they like, and none of it will stick.

 

[Sankari]

Meanwhile, Democrats are dropping a fresh payload of pain on the Trump administration:

A new report revealing more of acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney's role in withholding aid to Ukraine — and efforts by top Trump administration officials to get that money released — is a "game changer" that shows the need for witness testimony in the president's impeachment trial, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said Monday.

"This new story shows all four witnesses that we Senate Democrats have requested" were "intimately involved and had direct knowledge of President Trump's decision to cut off aid and benefit himself," Schumer, a Democrat, told reporters in a press conference at his New York office.

"Simply put, in our fight to have key documents and witnesses in the Senate impeachment trial, these new revelations are a game changer."

The New York Times reported Sunday that Mulvaney was flying with President Donald Trump on Air Force One in June when he emailed his senior adviser to ask, “Did we ever find out about the money for Ukraine and whether we can hold it back?”

The adviser, Robert Blair, emailed back that it could be done, but he warned that they should "[e]xpect Congress to become unhinged," the report said, citing a previously undisclosed email. Assisting Mulvaney execute the hold were Blair and three officials in the White House Office of Management and Budget, Russell Vought, the office's acting head, Michael Duffey, who oversees funding, and lawyer Mark Paoletta, the report said.

(Source).

They've really done their homework, this is impressive.

 

[deuse]

Wrong. Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman and Jennifer William both raised the alarm on the basis of what they had heard.

Oh the two who had different transcript of the call?
And vindam boss(Morrison) testified that Vindam leaked reports.

Or the one where vindam did not know the whistle blower was, then changed to he may know that person....to he did know the person
but would not give out the name.

I would not trust vidnam with a jelly bean

 

[deuse]

Biden has now said he will testify. Still think he's on the run?.

From your link

"But I am just not going to pretend that there is any legal basis for Republican subpoenas for my testimony in the impeachment trial."

It's not up to him to decide if it’s lawful, it’s up to the courts.

 

[Sankari]

Oh the two who had different transcript of the call?

Different from what? Like Vindman, she confirmed that the call was dodgy.

And vindam boss(Morrison) testified that Vindam leaked reports.

Irrelevant.

Or the one where vindam did not know the whistle blower was, then changed to he may know that person....to he did know the person
but would not give out the name.

I would not trust vidnam with a jelly bean

LOL, now you're just in denial.

From your link

"But I am just not going to pretend that there is any legal basis for Republican subpoenas for my testimony in the impeachment trial."

It's not up to him to decide if it’s lawful, it’s up to the courts.

So what? He's testifying. Still think he's on the run?

 

[kinetic747]

Anyone would think Biden was on trial here and not Trump and yes, I'm fully aware that's the spin the GOP are hoping for.

 

[deuse]

Different from what? Like Vindman, she confirmed that the call was dodgy.

So you never watched the proceedings? It's all there and posted in this thread.

Irrelevant.

So leaking government information means nothing to you...

So what? He's testifying. Still think he's on the run?

Yep and running backwards.

"Doocy responded, "Didn't you tell President Obama not to go after bin Laden that day?"

"To which Biden responded: "No, I didn't. I didn't."

But he said the opposite at the time.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/04/politics/biden-bin-laden-raid-fact-check/index.html

 

[Jono8]

This is literally a first hand witness (someone deeply involved in the scheme) saying that they all (Trump, Pence, Mulvaney, Bolton, Rudy etc) knew about it and that the whole scheme involved pressuring Ukraine to announce an investigation related to the Biden's, to help Trump's 2020 reelection campaign.

Trump did it. It happened.

 

[Sankari]

It's all falling apart for the Trump administration. The Ukrainegate scandal has become bigger than anyone could have predicted. I wonder how deuse will try to spin this?

So you never watched the proceedings? It's all there and posted in this thread.

I watched some of the proceedings, and I saw first hand witnesses confirm that the call was dodgy.

So leaking government information means nothing to you...

It does, but it's irrelevant to Trump's guilt.

Yep and running backwards.

Offering to testify at the impeachment hearing is 'running backwards'? LOL. Oh, you mean he corrected something he said that one time. Wow, stop the press, it's a late breaking story!

 

[mmj_uk]

The Democrats have found some new evidence.

I could swear he sounds like Joe Biden.

 

[VincentHanna]

The Democrats have found some new evidence.

I could swear he sounds like Joe Biden.

Oh he's back again with a new take on the same video. I'll just remind you of these posts...

That video is so stupid, it was US government policy also backed by the EU to get rid of the corrupt Ukraine official.

As opposed to: A president withholding aid to get a political rival investigated.

You can say it a thousand times, it's not something he seems capable of understanding the difference between.

When will you stop spreading lies, I appreciate it’s a Trump trait tell a lie often enough then it becomes the truth. Even if it’s unsupported by the facts.

Biden was echoing both a US and European policy to get rid of a compromised / corrupt prosecutor. In other words he was carrying out a US policy rather than what Trump was caught doing, digging up dirt on a political opponent.

he's been told this multiple times by numerous people, he doesn't care in the slightest, you're talking to a brick wall.

Have you got some kind of intellectual blindness that you cannot understand that Biden did it as GOVERNMENT POLICY and with the agreement of multiple other countries?

Is it really that hard to understand the difference between passing along a requirement that has been agreed upon by his own country (and enacting legislation passed by it's government) and it's allies, done under the advice of law enforcement and intelligence angies, and done openly and with full disclosure of the reasons and doing something using personal cronies, behind closed doors, against your own government's official policies and those of the same allies purely to benefit yourself.

I might as well be banging my head against a brick wall for all the good it does to tray and talk facts with you.

How many times do we have to tell you about the ex-prosecutor.

You are the perfect mark for a conspiracy, tell a lie often enough and some mug will believe it.

 

[Sankari]

Federal watchdog finds that Trump's administration broke the law by withholding Ukrainian aid:

The U.S. Government Accountability Office released Thursday a decision finding that the White House's Office of Management and Budget violated the law when it withheld military aid to Ukraine.

The state of play: The decision from the GAO, an independent government agency, comes just hours before the Senate will kick off President Trump's impeachment trial over his administration's actions on Ukraine.

The big picture: The GAO found that the OMB violated the 1974 Impoundment Control Act, which requires that the White House and its agencies disburse funds appropriated by Congress as directed by the legislative branch.

(Source).

Republicans will acquit him anyway, but now they'll be flying in the face of the law.

 

[jsmoke]

Federal watchdog finds that Trump's administration broke the law by withholding Ukrainian aid:



(Source).

Republicans will acquit him anyway, but now they'll be flying in the face of the law.

So many laws already been broken, cash for favours, Iraq war, on and on.