Afghanistan - 20 years on

[Robbo]

If it's true that the Afghan forces downed weapons and the leaders fled, what more can the US do I suppose? Leave troops there forever to try and offer some stability that the country itself doesn't care about?

Sad for the people, but a real mess.

 

[physichull]

He's not wrong though, the issue isn't about withdrawing, its about the shambolic nature of the withdrawal.

 

[GreatAuk]

My Summary of the speech:

• US was only in Afghan to prevent terrorism. However, as the terrorist threat has now broadened and is present across the middle east there's no reason to stay.
• US got part of what they wanted when they killed Bin Laden.
• Soldiers were cowards for not fighting.
• Not for US to intervene in 'civil war', Afghan govt needed to come together and fight its own war. He was Frank with Afghan president when they talked earlier in the year.
• US will continue diplomatic efforts to protect human rights.
• US continues to evacuate eligible people, will expand programs for refugees.
• Says they didn't start evacuation earlier partly so as not to trigger a crisis of confidence.
• Says more time in Afghanistan would not make a difference, Afghanistan known as 'graveyard of empires' for a reason.
• Wants to maintain focus on anti terror activities.

So aside from being so cold about the fate of those that believed in the Afghan project and will suffer for it, my criticisms are:

• Completely ignored the role of the US in designing and setting up the state which failed and was clearly not for for purpose without external support.
• Describes it as a civil war, ignoring nature as a proxy war with foreign involvement.
• Ignores role in removing groups which did resist Taliban in the past, meaning they control more of the country now than they used to.
• Says US forces were bearing the brunt of the fighting when this has not been true for years.
• Criticises cowardice of soldiers without acknowledging the corrupt leaders and impossible conditions they were placed under. I wonder how many American soldiers would fight on if ordered to surrender by their leaders, not paid, running out of food and ammo, and in a war that even their closest allies had abandoned after doing a deal with their enemies.
• Little responsiblity taken for the absolute state of the current withdrawal.

 

[robfosters]

If it's true that the Afghan forces downed weapons and the leaders fled, what more can the US do I suppose? Leave troops there forever to try and offer some stability that the country itself doesn't care about?

Sad for the people, but a real mess.

I agree that you can’t fight their war forever, but if the taliban start to inflict murder and terror on the public, how can we stand back and let it happen?

 

[BananaDunka]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427222932854611973

Damn the Tellyban :/

 

[Minusorange]

Little responsiblity taken for the absolute state of the current withdrawal.

Like Boris completely out of touch with reality, I don't think anyone would begrudge the withdrawal from Afghanistan when it has been the end game for years and is something Trump commited to that the following President is expected finalise.

The problem is the matter in which it has been orchestrated in the last few weeks, it's an utter shambles and the first stain of likely many that the US will suffer under Biden

 

[MrMarvelous]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427222932854611973

Damn the Tellyban :/

They even Snackbar when smashing up a television!

 

[BananaDunka]

Little responsiblity taken for the absolute state of the current withdrawal.

trump started the withdrawal, he said so himself:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427051039404957697

But either way, this outcome was going to happen sooner or later.

 

[steve45]

how can we stand back and let it happen?

What do we do? Boots on ground again? Spend another two decades propping up a country that cant/wont stand on its own two feet? 20 years in AFG and Iraq have taken a severe toll on our forces and veterans physically and mentally. We are more stretched now manpower and budget wise than we have been for a long time. We'd need to be tooled up again to fight properly which will come at great expense as our focus has moved away from counter insurgency and a lot of the experience and knowledge from the HERRICK years has since moved on.

As gut-wrenching as it is to see our hard work, effort and sacrifices flushed down the drain. This was the only realistic course of action, yes the draw down could have been handled better. However the end result would have been very much the same.

 

[Steampunk]

I agree that you can’t fight their war forever, but if the taliban start to inflict murder and terror on the public, how can we stand back and let it happen?

The same way we do in many other countries around the world.

 

[lemonkettaz]

We could have sustained a presence in Kabul easily. This is political only. Joe Public hasn't heard a peep from Afg in years.

 

[EdGey]

I predict a decade of murder or worse behind closed doors, as the Taliban seek retribution against anyone deemed to have sided with NATO in the past, without it coming to the attention of the world or making it to the headlines in any meaningful way.

 

[alchal]

Where's the #metoo movement? 19 million women are about to be reduced to the state of cattle with a large number executed for being educated, where is the #metoo movement? Just wondering.

Doesn't count if Muslim nutjobs do it ....

 

[HoneyBadger]

The withdrawal has been executed badly, but a deadline was previously agreed.

Taking Biden at face value, it seems like everything that could be done, was done.

They’ve given the country a chance, ultimately the country has not taken it. There comes a point whereby the Afghans have to take responsibility for their own lives, and if they can’t do it within 20 years, I see no reason why others should do it for them.

As I said earlier, it’s now time to leave them to it, to sort it out themselves.

 

[Tosno]

Where are the left's SJWs to protest against the patriarchy, the fact that Kabul Pride will not go ahead next year, millions of Afghan women and children will be oppressed, treated as servants, raped at will, punished by lashings and beheadings and to encourage the Taliban to respect people's "pronouns"?!

 

[HoneyBadger]

Perhaps Shamima Begum should move there. She’ll fit right in I’m sure.

 

[The Running Man]

I agree that you can’t fight their war forever, but if the taliban start to inflict murder and terror on the public, how can we stand back and let it happen?

The same way we do here.

After she has been raped by a group of five men she is told that, if she says a word to anyone, she will be taken from the home and beaten. When, after the episode is repeated, she threatens to go to the police, she is taken into the countryside, doused in petrol, and told that she is going to be set alight, unless she promises to tell no one of the ordeal.

Is this Afghanistan or Rotherham?

 

[Washout]

Read today that there was only 2500 American troops in the country when he took the reigns?! Ironically more there now to get the civilians out. I'm not sure a clean withdrawal was ever a possibility.
I think the Taliban would have started ramping up operations which would have left those troops in a tough spot as there wasn't enough to give the ANA the leadership/spine it's own officers clearly didn't give/have.

What choice then but to see them literally chased out with many dead or ramp up numbers again to contain them, with more American dead.

Sad, sad mess but at which point is enough enough?

 

[MatsyLR]

Time to just pull out and leave them to it.
Its sad for the innocents but their culture is incompatible with a civilised society..

 

[The Running Man]

Read today that there was only 2500 American troops in the country when he took the reigns?! Ironically more there now to get the civilians out. I'm not sure a clean withdrawal was ever a possibility.
I think the Taliban would have started ramping up operations which would have left those troops in a tough spot as there wasn't enough to give the ANA the leadership/spine it's own officers clearly didn't give/have.

What choice then but to see them literally chased out with many dead or ramp up numbers again to contain them, with more American dead.

Sad, sad mess but at which point is enough enough?

The taliban have already agreed to not fire at the US troops going back to last year as part of the withdrawal package.

Do you think they ate stupid enough to start lighting up the airport on us diplomats etc and force the US to counter attack them?