Far Cry 6 GPU performance not bad at all but is severely bottlenecked by CPU

Nexus18 · 11 Oct 2021 at 17:23

tommybhoy said:
That's partly why I'm pointing out these things from time to time, so that the reading of 20 odd threads of lots of folks laughing that it's plenty will literraly base a second hand purchase because of the wrong impression of how vram will play out over time.

(it just happened to be you that got quoted, I know you'll no take the nip as @Nexus18 would just go on and on anyway)

There is no doubt that vram will become/is a problem depending on scenarios/settings but as pointed out, grunt and vram go hand in hand, a gpu might lack the required vram but it will more than likely also lack the grunt to get fps that certain people would want in the first place i.e. take FC 6, know for a fact certain people here will be wanting 90/100+ fps in this regardless so they will be having to turn down the settings even though they have the vram there and when they turn off/down some of those settings, the vram becomes a non issue then (well unless you're one of the many people who are having texture, stuttering, fps issues regardless of settings.... but I digress

)

dualsense1673 · 11 Oct 2021 at 17:49

ltmatt i might have cracked the case

https://discussions.ubisoft.com/top...-in-the-game-is-blurry/243?lang=en-US&page=13

these users say that when they revert to an older driver, texture problems seem to disappear. can someone ask if these people have rebar enabled on their rtx systems?

if thats the case, latest nv driver is the one that adds rebar support for far cry 6. older drivers do not enable far cry 6 for specifically, hence its not active when you play far cry 6 with an older driver

that might explain why some users have fixed their textures by downgrading drivers. i gather rebar's extra vram pressure makes these gpus act funny. its just a speculation, but its worth checking out

if thats the case; nv will probably disable rebar in the next driver for fc6 and problems will go away... for now

it seems rbar was a mistake for nvidia. since it increases vram consumption randomly, it may have more adverse affects than useful effects in these conditions

TNA · 11 Oct 2021 at 17:52

dualsense1673 said:
ltmatt i might have cracked the case

https://discussions.ubisoft.com/top...-in-the-game-is-blurry/243?lang=en-US&page=13

these users say that when they revert to an older driver, texture problems seem to disappear. can someone ask if these people have rebar enabled on their rtx systems?

if thats the case, latest nv driver is the one that adds rebar support for far cry 6. older drivers do not enable far cry 6 for specifically, hence its not active when you play far cry 6 with an older driver

that might explain why some users have fixed their textures by downgrading drivers. i gather rebar's extra vram pressure makes these gpus act funny. its just a speculation, but its worth checking out

if thats the case; nv will probably disable rebar in the next driver for fc6 and problems will go away... for now

it seems rbar was a mistake for nvidia. since it increases vram consumption randomly, it may have more adverse affects than useful effects in these conditions

I can foresee LtMatt’s reaction to this post:

dualsense1673 · 11 Oct 2021 at 17:55

TNA said:
I can foresee LtMatt’s reaction to this post:

i dont think so, i still point out to nvidia's greed: their own rbar implementation may bit them in their back. from what i see,rbar can increase vram consumption up to 500-700 mb in some cases

rbar or not, the exposition is there. the card suffers. whether some accept or not. it shouldn't have; not with its price tag and with its promises. where s jensen and his kitchen now, stuff is on fire :E

. if they end up disabling rbar for this game specifically after enabling it specifically, i will have great laughs bcoz it would prove me true

Bill Turnip · 11 Oct 2021 at 17:59

dualsense1673 said:
i dont think so, i still point out to nvidia's greed: their own rbar implementation may bit them in their back. from what i see,rbar can increase vram consumption up to 500-700 mb in some cases

If this is true, then it proves that the nvidia 3080 was under-specced. It should DEFINITELY have shipped with 10.2gb of VRAM.

TNA · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:01

dualsense1673 said:
i dont think so, i still point out to nvidia's greed: their own rbar implementation may bit them in their back. from what i see,rbar can increase vram consumption up to 500-700 mb in some cases

rbar or not, the exposition is there. the card suffers. whether some accept or not. it shouldn't have. if they end up disabling rbar for this game specifically after enabling it specifically, i will have great laughs bcoz it would prove me true

I have never bothered enabling it. Seems pointless to me. Only way I would enable it is if I was about to start a specific game that I need the extra performance and the benchmarks show a 5-10 percent uplift. Would then just turn it off after due to the fact many games the fps has a negative impact. Poor implementation imo. Had they done it in a way where at worse it had no performance impact and never negative, I would enable it.

Bill Turnip said:
If this is true, then it proves that the nvidia 3080 was under-specced. It should DEFINITELY have shipped with 10.2gb of VRAM.

LtMatt · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:02

TNA said:
I can foresee LtMatt’s reaction to this post:

Hold on a minute, I thought this was all AMDs fault?

dualsense1673 said:
ltmatt i might have cracked the case

https://discussions.ubisoft.com/top...-in-the-game-is-blurry/243?lang=en-US&page=13

these users say that when they revert to an older driver, texture problems seem to disappear. can someone ask if these people have rebar enabled on their rtx systems?

if thats the case, latest nv driver is the one that adds rebar support for far cry 6. older drivers do not enable far cry 6 for specifically, hence its not active when you play far cry 6 with an older driver

that might explain why some users have fixed their textures by downgrading drivers. i gather rebar's extra vram pressure makes these gpus act funny. its just a speculation, but its worth checking out

if thats the case; nv will probably disable rebar in the next driver for fc6 and problems will go away... for now

it seems rbar was a mistake for nvidia. since it increases vram consumption randomly, it may have more adverse affects than useful effects in these conditions

Had a look, interesting. Seems like lowering settings seemed to fix it in combination with using an older driver from the two posts I saw?

TNA · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:04

LtMatt said:
Hold on a minute, I thought this was all AMDs fault?

Depends on who you ask I suppose

dualsense1673 · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:07

LtMatt said:
Hold on a minute, I thought this was all AMDs fault?

Had a look, interesting. Seems like lowering settings seemed to fix it in combination with using an older driver from the two posts I saw?

yes, 472.12 is the one with "far cry 6" optimizations

i will sign up to ubi forum and ask him if he had rebar enabled. if he had not, my theory collapses

LtMatt · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:08

dualsense1673 said:
yes, 472.12 is the one with "far cry 6" optimizations

i will sign up to ubi forum and ask him if he had rebar enabled. if he had not, my theory collapses

Lol, good luck sir.

Maybe rebar will help some users if disabling it does reduce memory usage a few hundred MB. I'm not sure it will save everyone though.

gpuerrilla · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:11

Nexus18 said:
As for the resize bar, we have a good few articles on this now too where a 3090 doesn't gain much, if any extra perf. over lesser vram nvidia cards. In theory, total vram amount shouldn't really make much, if any difference, as the whole point of resize bar/SAM is to remove the middle man/bottleneck i.e. the temporary 256MB buffer/swap file (and iirc uni directional traffic at that) so that cpu can have direct access to the gpus vram and use it as it pleases.
...
Still would like to see some testing of the ones having these texture/stuttering issues in FC 6 do a resize bar on vs off comparison.

dualsense1673 said:
ltmatt i might have cracked the case

these users say that when they revert to an older driver, texture problems seem to disappear. can someone ask if these people have rebar enabled on their rtx systems?

if thats the case, latest nv driver is the one that adds rebar support for far cry 6. older drivers do not enable far cry 6 for specifically, hence its not active when you play far cry 6 with an older driver

that might explain why some users have fixed their textures by downgrading drivers. i gather rebar's extra vram pressure makes these gpus act funny. its just a speculation, but its worth checking out

if thats the case; nv will probably disable rebar in the next driver for fc6 and problems will go away... for now

it seems rbar was a mistake for nvidia. since it increases vram consumption randomly, it may have more adverse affects than useful effects in these conditions

Like I said (which was also dismissed months ago on the 3080 10Gb enough VRAM thread) once you add rebar into the mix I want to see real performance impact, not some theory retort on how "all it does is increase the address size to bigger than 256" (not you that said this I think but a couple did).

LtMatt · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:13

Th0nt said:
Like I said (which was also dismissed months ago on the 3080 10Gb enough VRAM thread) once you add rebar into the mix I want to see real performance impact, not some theory retort on how "all it does is increase the address size to bigger than 256" (not you that said this I think but a couple did).

I've not really tested it to see if SAM has any effect on video memory, curious to know though now you've mentioned it.

gpuerrilla · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:17

Actually he did say that in this thread - lol, but some did in the 3080 one and I gave up as its more fingers in ear, not fitting the spec sheet narrative. But here we have a likely reason and as some have pointed out in multiple threads, VRAM matters which is the whole debate right?

Normally its down to bad coding or implementation, even a sloppy driver. However never discount it could actually be needed in hardware. When I bought my 1060 all them years ago I stumped the extra for the 6Gb version for this very reason.

Before people get their pitchforks out btw, I game at 4k so goes with the territory. Big textures and high res is what these top end cards have been advertised for (not arsed about 1080p and 1440p - for me ok).

dualsense1673 · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:26

LtMatt said:
I've not really tested it to see if SAM has any effect on video memory, curious to know though now you've mentioned it.

https://youtu.be/IDkR3JCLk3s?t=63

seems a bit much in this video

rbar off 7.4 gigs
rbar on 8.3 gigs on cyberpunk. a definte 800+ mb diff. there. then again, it may be random? bcoz rdr2 sees a similar vram consumption for both modes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmLM375fSW8&t=141s

this one seems more consistent,

ac valhalla
off 5.4 gb
on 6.4 gb

hzd, 100 mb more for on

forza horizon
off 4.1 gb
on 4.6 gb

hitman 3
off 3.5 gb
on 4.1 gb

cyberfunk
off 6.1 gb
on 6.7 gb (ok, at this point it can't be coincidence. this also coincides with the other benchmark channel with the 3080 and cyberfunk)

rdr 2
off 4.4 gb
on 4.4 gb. same, just like the other channel. it is consistent. maybe this game does not care about rbar dunno. yeah it is supported but u get the idea

crap dogs legion
off 4.3 gb
on 4.7 gb

exodus, same vram

it is clear that RBAR on indicates a increase in vram consumption in general. and in some cases, the increase may be called too severe or too huge for the little performance it brings.

now i wont be surprised if turning rbar off reduces a 700 - 900 mb of vram magically in fc6 as well and suddenly gpu is out of memory pressure.

Nexus18 · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:28

Th0nt said:
Like I said (which was also dismissed months ago on the 3080 10Gb enough VRAM thread) once you add rebar into the mix I want to see real performance impact, not some theory retort on how "all it does is increase the address size to bigger than 256" (not you that said this I think but a couple did).

What's the roll eyes for? Read up on what resize bar/sam does.... and you will clearly see what the whole point/purpose of it is....

Straight from nvidia:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/news/geforce-rtx-30-series-resizable-bar-support/

And a good explanation:

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/what-is-resizable-bar-4150689

How does this work? It essentially makes the relationship between the CPU and GPU more efficient by removing the 256MB block read limit. With this cap removed, your system will be able to handle multiple video memory requests simultaneously and prevent a queue from forming.

This is especially important for loading up complex gaming worlds that require lots of GPU memory (VRAM) transfers for the likes of textures, shaders and geometry.

As shown in videos comparisons for both sides (you can have a look YT to see loads of videos), the vram usage is higher, generally around 300-400mb I have noticed.

From my experience, it made a substantial difference in cyberpunk, as in the game was considerably smoother and less hitches, both on my ryzen 2600 (which wasn't "officially" supported according to amd & nvidia, however, it was enabled) and my 5600x, despite my vram being at the brink of 10GB.

Th0nt said:
Actually he did say that in this thread - lol, but some did in the 3080 one and I gave up as its more fingers in ear, not fitting the spec sheet narrative. But here we have a likely reason and as some have pointed out in multiple threads, VRAM matters which is the whole debate right?

Normally its down to bad coding or implementation, even a sloppy driver. However never discount it could actually be needed in hardware. When I bought my 1060 all them years ago I stumped the extra for the 6Gb version for this very reason.

Before people get their pitchforks out btw, I game at 4k so goes with the territory. Big textures and high res is what these top end cards have been advertised for (not arsed about 1080p and 1440p - for me ok).

Yup I raised it as has been known to cause issues for nvidia in certain games, hence why they only white list/enable it for a select few and not globally like amd. Maybe it is because of vram limitations or maybe it's because of optimisation reasons but if it was vram related, surely they wouldn't disable it for games on the 3090 too????

Again, have a read on temporary file swap systems and the like etc. as they all have much the same concepts as per the workings of resize bar/sam.

LtMatt · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:30

Th0nt said:
Actually he did say that in this thread - lol, but some did in the 3080 one and I gave up as its more fingers in ear, not fitting the spec sheet narrative. But here we have a likely reason and as some have pointed out in multiple threads, VRAM matters which is the whole debate right?

Normally its down to bad coding or implementation, even a sloppy driver. However never discount it could actually be needed in hardware. When I bought my 1060 all them years ago I stumped the extra for the 6Gb version for this very reason.

Before people get their pitchforks out btw, I game at 4k so goes with the territory. Big textures and high res is what these top end cards have been advertised for (not arsed about 1080p and 1440p - for me ok).

I just tested it Th0nt, here are my findings on the AMD side.

1. Restart PC
2. Wait 15 seconds, launch Uplay offline mode (uplay overlay disabled)
3. Launch Far Cry 6, using 4K + max settings (HD Textures/RT etc)
4. Run benchmark scene.
5. Exit game, open HWINFO64 and take a screenshot of the dedicated video memory usage. This captures total application VRAM usage + OS and any background apps you have running.
6. Open Radeon Software, disable Smart Access Memory (SAM), Radeon Software UI restarts.
7. Restart PC
8. Wait 15 seconds, launch Uplay offline mode (uplay overlay disabled)
9. Launch Far Cry 6, using 4k + max settings (HD Textures/RT etc)
10. Run benchmark scene.
11. Exit game, open HWINFO64 and take a screenshot of the dedicated video memory usage.

SAM On

SAM Off

So, I actually see slightly lower video memory usage with SAM on. But it's so close at 90MB difference that it could be margin of error.

LtMatt · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:33

dualsense1673 said:
https://youtu.be/IDkR3JCLk3s?t=63

seems a bit much in this video

rbar off 7.4 gigs
rbar on 8.3 gigs on cyberpunk. a definte 800+ mb diff. there. then again, it may be random? bcoz rdr2 sees a similar vram consumption for both modes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmLM375fSW8&t=141s

this one seems more consistent,

ac valhalla
off 5.4 gb
on 6.4 gb

hzd, 100 mb more for on

forza horizon
off 4.1 gb
on 4.6 gb

hitman 3
off 3.5 gb
on 4.1 gb

cyberfunk
off 6.1 gb
on 6.7 gb (ok, at this point it can't be coincidence. this also coincides with the other benchmark channel with the 3080 and cyberfunk)

rdr 2
off 4.4 gb
on 4.4 gb. same, just like the other channel. it is consistent. maybe this game does not care about rbar dunno. yeah it is supported but u get the idea

crap dogs legion
off 4.3 gb
on 4.7 gb

exodus, same vram

it is clear that RBAR on indicates a increase in vram consumption in general. and in some cases, the increase may be called too severe or too huge for the little performance it brings.

now i wont be surprised if turning rbar off reduces a 700 - 900 mb of vram magically in fc6 as well and suddenly gpu is out of memory pressure.

Interesting, I see less VRAM usage with SAM on, though I only just tested Far Cry 6, see my post above.

People should start testing this to see if it helps, this might help 3080 TI users.

Nexus18 · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:34

dualsense1673 said:
https://youtu.be/IDkR3JCLk3s?t=63

seems a bit much in this video

rbar off 7.4 gigs
rbar on 8.3 gigs on cyberpunk. a definte 800+ mb diff. there. then again, it may be random? bcoz rdr2 sees a similar vram consumption for both modes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmLM375fSW8&t=141s

this one seems more consistent,

ac valhalla
off 5.4 gb
on 6.4 gb

hzd, 100 mb more for on

forza horizon
off 4.1 gb
on 4.6 gb

hitman 3
off 3.5 gb
on 4.1 gb

cyberfunk
off 6.1 gb
on 6.7 gb (ok, at this point it can't be coincidence. this also coincides with the other benchmark channel with the 3080 and cyberfunk)

rdr 2
off 4.4 gb
on 4.4 gb. same, just like the other channel. it is consistent. maybe this game does not care about rbar dunno. yeah it is supported but u get the idea

crap dogs legion
off 4.3 gb
on 4.7 gb

exodus, same vram

it is clear that RBAR on indicates a increase in vram consumption in general. and in some cases, the increase may be called too severe or too huge for the little performance it brings.

now i wont be surprised if turning rbar off reduces a 700 - 900 mb of vram magically in fc6 as well and suddenly gpu is out of memory pressure.

Yup it depends on the game and nvidias optimisation/tweaks probably, I doubt it is as simple as flipping a switch on for nvidia. AMD will have it much easier given the combination of hardware.

As mentioned in the resize bar thread, my average fps wasn't much better in cyberpunk with or without rebar, my vram was already at the 10gb limit too but with rebar on, it was a much smoother experience, especially when looking at the low/min fps. I also felt that textures/LOD loaded in quicker and better too.

gpuerrilla · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:46

Nexus18 said:
What's the roll eyes for? Read up on what resize bar/sam does....

This wasn't meant to be a pop at you but after reading what you have posted, it is exactly that. The roll eyes is because that is exactly the responses I got months ago and we couldn't say anything about it as no games got in the pickle. Now we have a game finally that triggers so weird behaviour it is nice to discuss it.

I know what resize bar / SAM does what I have said is I will judge it on games in a game basis - not some spec sheet of how it should work. If you game at 4k and introduce high detailed mods (in this case large texture pack) I can only assume if the nvidia driver doesnt nail the memory management you will see some strange behaviour.

Many layers here, BIOS micro code with motherboard vendors. Software, drivers and in game settings.

Nexus18 · 11 Oct 2021 at 18:48

Th0nt said:
This wasn't meant to be a pop at you but after reading what you have posted, it is exactly that. The roll eyes is because that is exactly the responses I got months ago and we couldn't say anything about it as no games got in the pickle. Now we have a game finally that triggers so weird behaviour it is nice to discuss it.

I know what resize bar / SAM does what I have said is I will judge it on games in a game basis - not some spec sheet of how it should work. If you game at 4k and introduce high detailed mods (in this case large texture pack) I can only assume if the nvidia driver doesnt nail the memory management you will see some strange behaviour.

Many layers here, BIOS micro code with motherboard vendors. Software, drivers and in game settings.

Ah fair, misinterpreted your post.

I also want to see comparisons in this game with resize bar on and off.