Japanese Grand Prix 2011, Suzuka Circuit - Race 15/19

ps3ud0 said:
Oh I agree, but why place the overtakers car in a place where thats the potential? One thing Ive said about quite a few of the Hamilton incidents is that he just leaves himself open to have his race ruined...

I dont think its about how quick they 'yield' but more once they accept (if they are aware of it even) the pass then they need to be fair to avoid incidence. I think that comes with experience As you said everyone has a style, but care to share Maldonaldos? I dont know it, dont expect many do though...

Definitely far more psychology involved than I first considered really...

ps3ud0 :cool:
Click to expand...

Every overtake always put someone's race at risk (DRS drive by's not included). Someone is always off line.

As for Maldonado, there may be an element of truth in what you are saying. He spent his GP2 career out front in the feature race after putting it on Pole, and then stuck in 6th in the sprint races unable to overtake. He is not well known for his on track battling abilities. However, you still must assume that to be at the top of circuit based motorsport, every driver in F1 must have a grasp of good racecraft.
 
Skeeter said:
The Spa incident would have been avoided with a simple check of the mirrors from Hamilton. He didnt, he didnt know Kobayashi was there, he crashed. In fairness, after sailing past through the DRS zone I doubt Hamilton would have expected Kobayashi to be right there, so wouldn't have felt the need to check his mirrors.
Click to expand...

I would agree with that statement if we were talking about a lesser driver.
However we are talking about Hamilton, who is trying to become an all-time great.

Look at this way, if an unknown football striker was surrounded by 3 defenders, you would not expect him to make it through to goal. Most people would expect him to get tackled successfully, before he was through on goal. Now, lets say if you are Ronaldo or Messi - you would expect them to get a shot off at goal. Messi might actually be considered odds on to score on that situation.

In the same way, if I someone like Maldonado was driving in place of Hamilton, you wouldn't hold it against him, if he completely missed the location of Kobayashi's car. However, Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Button - you would not expect them to screw up. For me, the Koba collision was a schoolboy error and I would not expect someone of Hamilton's experience to make such an amateur error. Notice that Vettel, Button and Alonso have not made these types of errors (this year). Only Hamilton has.

Even when I drive in go karts and on computer sims, I am always aware of the car I have just passed OR am aware of the sound of the car which is just behind me. And I'm an amateur compared to Hamilton.
 
I think you can drop Vettel from your comparison, he has not had the opportunity to show his overtaking skills this season.

But yes, you are right, it was a bit of a school boy error to not have a quick glance to see where Kobayashi was. But I do still accept that given the speed he flew past him, it is not unfair the assume Hamilton thought he would be a good few car lengths in front. But at the end of the day, it was Hamiltons small mistake, and he paid the big price of a DNF.
 
Skeeter said:
I think you can drop Vettel from your comparison, he has not had the opportunity to show his overtaking skills this season.
Click to expand...
Im gonna sound a bit of a ****, but surely being one of the 24 drivers in the top echelon of single seater circuit racing you would expect him to have good racecraft like overtaking? Surely you cant say he doesnt have the requisite skills that he has to demonstrate them to have them? How else could he be in F1?

Not at all trying to have a go (would weakening my point), just making you understand how your argument usually has quite a loose fit regards the point you are trying to argue and those assumptions/reasoning can be quite easily surmised to counter...
Skeeter said:
But at the end of the day, it was Hamiltons small mistake, and he paid the big price of a DNF.
Click to expand...
But thats always been the case at the top of any sport/profession - to be the best means making such small margins count for you, not against you. Where you look to excuse him, I look to why he shouldnt be considered a top driver as he doesnt seem to fit that criteria currently...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Last edited:
I'm not saying Vettel doesn't have the skill, I'm just saying he's not had to put it to the test much this year, that's all.

And I see Hamilton as a top driver who is making mistakes, rather than an average driver over all.
 
I was talking about Vettel breaking records, earlier.

D.Hill has weighed in about Vettel:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15241395.stm

"Michael's record is very unlikely ever to be beaten," Hill told BBC Sport.

"They changed the rules because he was winning too much. It's much more competitive now than it ever was. Vettel has that to contend with."

"He's already got two in the bag," Hill said. "I would say another four titles in the next 10 seasons wouldn't be out of the question, would it?
Click to expand...

So, Hill thinks Vettel might end up with 6 and this is despite F1 being more competitive now, than it was in MSc's time.
 
NathanE said:
That guy has a huge chip on his shoulder for Hamilton. There is probably some jealously, racism and being British doesn't help. That's the sort of character I believe Maldonaldo is.
Click to expand...

Seriously what sort of crap is that to post?

Playing the racism card, just like Lewis, pathetic...never mind he drives for a British team....lol
 
Skeeter said:
As for Maldonado, there may be an element of truth in what you are saying. He spent his GP2 career out front in the feature race after putting it on Pole, and then stuck in 6th in the sprint races unable to overtake. He is not well known for his on track battling abilities. However, you still must assume that to be at the top of circuit based motorsport, every driver in F1 must have a grasp of good racecraft.
Click to expand...


Yet he never took a single pole in 2010 when winning the title...
 
sunama said:
I was talking about Vettel breaking records, earlier.

D.Hill has weighed in about Vettel:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15241395.stm



So, Hill thinks Vettel might end up with 6 and this is despite F1 being more competitive now, than it was in MSc's time.
Click to expand...

I think he was being rhetorical when he said "He's already got two in the bag," Hill said. "I would say another four titles in the next 10 seasons wouldn't be out of the question, would it?" - mainly because the RB has been so dominant this year and so if the trend continues Vettel probably has a decent chance of winning many more titles. I think what Hill was trying to say in the end, is that because F1 is more competitive now, it is unlikely we will see Vettel go through an era of MSc-like dominance (again, unless RB are continually on top of the regulation changes).
 
Mr Men said:
Yet he never took a single pole in 2010 when winning the title...
Click to expand...

Good point, but he was always near the front. He only got 1 sprint race podium, while getting 7 feature podiums, including 6 wins. When the reverse grid stuck him back in the pack for the sprint race, he struggled to make any progress.

He also spent 4 years in GP2 before he won, which is a lot longer than most other winners who have progressed to F1.

Perez ran him close in 2010 and showed to be much more of an all round racer, which is why I rate Perez above Maldonado.

Tell you what, I really miss having Sky TV. I really enjoyed following drivers progression through GP2. Anyone know if there's anywhere that torrents GP2 races?
 
Skeeter said:
I'm not saying Vettel doesn't have the skill, I'm just saying he's not had to put it to the test much this year, that's all.

And I see Hamilton as a top driver who is making mistakes, rather than an average driver over all.
Click to expand...

I really dont understand how anybody thinks driving a car with such precision lap after lap [even though people think it is the best, i'd argue there] does not take skill, the mind boggles.. The McLaren,Ferrari have been marginally behind our car on a few occasions and on some circuits equal to it but even with their proven "skill" have not been able to push Seb off pole.

The mind really does boggle sometimes :confused:
 
I'd love to see Formula 1 have 2 races at the end of the season with every driver in exactly the same car. Don't get me wrong I like all the technolgy fights between the teams but it would also be nice to see exactly who is the best driver!!
 
No matter which way you cut it, He has been pretty much perfect this season. Even if his car is faster, He still needs to extract that speed from it without mistake, This he has done flawlessly most of the season. I honestly think he is more worthy of this championship than the last. Good job from Vettel and of course you RB guys in the team, Now to just sew up that constructors (easy enough now) :p

Lets hope someone brings the fight next season :)
 
CS||nuTs said:
I really dont understand how anybody thinks driving a car with such precision lap after lap [even though people think it is the best, i'd argue there] does not take skill, the mind boggles.. The McLaren,Ferrari have been marginally behind our car on a few occasions and on some circuits equal to it but even with their proven "skill" have not been able to push Seb off pole.

The mind really does boggle sometimes :confused:
Click to expand...

The specific 'skill' we were talking about was overtaking ability, something Vettel has not had the opportunity to do much of this year.
 
1uke said:
I'd love to see Formula 1 have 2 races at the end of the season with every driver in exactly the same car. Don't get me wrong I like all the technolgy fights between the teams but it would also be nice to see exactly who is the best driver!!
Click to expand...

They do, its called Massa's go karting charity event!
 
sunama said:
So, Hill thinks Vettel might end up with 6 and this is despite F1 being more competitive now, than it was in MSc's time.
Click to expand...

its not more competitive for the last 2 seasons...

RBR are as dominant as ferrari ever were which is why vettel came close to beating a certain record.

the drivers beeing of higher quality is also BS its about the same as it ever was apart from msc generally had a proper title rival unlike vettel has had this season
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom