Supplements the debate/discussion thread

yep, taste is rank and doesn't mix.
get yourself a large neck bottle (such as capella or vitamin water) fill 3/4 with water, add orange squash, mix and let it settle for a bit, then mix again.
Perfectly masks the taste and makes it very reasonable to drink. After an hour or so it will mix as well. :)
 
I've noticed my latest batches from MP have been 'bitty' (normally its just froffy after shaking). Saying that, I need to find another time to take it as I used to take it for fasted training (changed to evening workouts). So, got 1kg to go through.
 
You big girls, I forgot to stick some squash in my water bottle the other day so just had BCAAs and water. I was expecting some vile putrid tasting toilet water to sip on during my session but apart from having a slight tang it was fine!
 
Thought I'd add a summary from my latest scan of literature...

Sciencedirect.com is actually very useful.

I've had a trawl this morning through the literature relating to protein consumption (I have a generic position on this and wanted to know if I was talking ****), beta alanine (this is quite popular and I wanted to understand why) and creatine (I use this and wanted to see what the specifics were behind it).

The findings below have been spoiler'd to minimise TL;DR, but are just a quick scan of literature in the respective areas. If you aren't interested, I won't be offended. I'm putting this down as a marker for my future reference more than anything else.


1: Short-duration β-alanine supplementation increases training volume and reduces subjective feelings of fatigue in college football players (Nutrition Research, vol 28, issue 1, Jan 2008)

The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of 30 days of β-alanine supplementation in collegiate football players on anaerobic performance measures. Subjects were randomly divided into a supplement (β-alanine group [BA], 4.5 g•d−1 of β-alanine) or placebo (placebo group [P], 4.5 g•d−1 of maltodextrin) group. Supplementation began 3 weeks before preseason football training camp and continued for an additional 9 days during camp. Performance measures included a 60-second Wingate anaerobic power test and 3 line drills (200-yd shuttle runs with a 2-minute rest between sprints) assessed on day 1 of training camp. Training logs recorded resistance training volumes, and subjects completed questionnaires on subjective feelings of soreness, fatigue, and practice intensity. No difference was seen in fatigue rate in the line drill, but a trend (P = .07) was observed for a lower fatigue rate for BA compared with P during the Wingate anaerobic power test. A significantly higher training volume was seen for BA in the bench press exercise, and a trend (P = .09) for a greater training volume was seen for all resistance exercise sessions. In addition, subjective feelings of fatigue were significantly lower for BA than P. In conclusion, despite a trend toward lower fatigue rates during 60 seconds of maximal exercise, 3 weeks of β-alanine supplementation did not result in significant improvements in fatigue rates during high-intensity anaerobic exercise. However, higher training volumes and lower subjective feelings of fatigue in BA indicated that as duration of supplementation continued, the efficacy of β-alanine supplementation in highly trained athletes became apparent.
SUMMARY: Beta Alanine helps with the development of muscle mass and power. At 4.5g/day. :eek:


2: Effects of 8 weeks of creatine supplementation on exercise performance and fat-free weight in football players during training(Nutrition Research, Volume 19, Issue 2, February 1999, Pages 217–225)

The purpose of this study was to examine the changes in bench press strength (BPS), vertical jump (VJ), 100 yd dash time, and fat-free weight (FFW) in football players following 8 weeks of supplementation with a carbohydrate placebo (CHO), creatine monohydrate (CM), or CM plus CHO. Using a double blind random design, 24 college football players were placed into one of three treatment conditions: CHO) 35g CHO; CM) 5.25g CM plus 1g CHO; or CM+CHO) 5.25g CM and 33g CHO. All treatments were similar in taste and were ingested four times per day for five consecutive days and twice daily thereafter. All subjects weight trained for 1 h and participated in 30 min of speed drills four times per week for 8 weeks. The CM+CHO group experienced significant (p<0.05) improvement in BPS, VJ, 100 yd dash time and FFW when compared to the CHO group. However, delta scores for the CM group were not significantly different from the CHO group. These data suggest that CHO taken with CM during training may be superior to training alone for enhancing exercise performance and FFW.
SUMMARY: Creatine and Carbs help with the development of muscle mass and power.


3: The Role of Nutritional Intake & Creatine Supplementation on Strength/Body Composition of Successful Division One CollegeFootball Players (Journal of the American Dietetic Association, Volume 97, Issue 9, Supplement, September 1997, Pages A14)

Optimal nutrition and supplementation are often used to enhance performance. Thus, the purpose of this study was to examine the role kilocalorie (kcal) intake, diet composition and creatine monohydrate supplementation (CMS) had on strength/body composition of 28 NCAA division one football players during the same, intense 15-day training period. Nutritionally, athletes primarily consumed school cafeteria food (33/45 meals) though were permitted to eat ad libitum from any source. Daily diet forms, listing menu items and recommended intake based on body mass, were utilized. All food consumed was recorded by the athlete, either by marking number of servings, or by a write-in entry. Creatine monohydrate or a placebo was administered (random, double-blind design) in a “load” phase (20 grams/day, 7 days) and in a subsequent “maintenance” phase (10 grams/day, 8 days). Results indicated no significant difference between the groups for nutritional intake (kcals: p = 0.89; 5,162/5,203 kcal, mean macronutrients: p = 0.62; carbohydrate 61/58%, protein 18/19%, fat 22/23%), strength volume during the “load” phase (p = 0.98) or in a pre-post “max bench press output” during a combination “load-maintenance” phase of CMS (p = 0.19). No significant difference existed for skinfold body composition measurements (p = 0.79) but a significant increase in body mass was observed in the experimental group (p < 0.0003). {Note: A different group of teammates (n = 52; same design & cafeteria, nutrition not analyzed) revealed similar non-significant findings for strength volume (p = 0.96) but significance was found in pre-post max bench press output (p = 0.04)}. Three conclusions are warranted: (1) CMS in a typical “load” phase dose did not significantly improve strength volume compared to a placebo group. (2) Pre-post “maximal bench press output” was not significantly increased during 15 days of a “load-maintenance” phase of CMS, however trends appeared to be present. (3) Body mass with no concurrent increase in skinfold body fat thickness was significantly increased during 15 days of a “load-maintenance” phase of CMS.
SUMMARY: Short term loading/maintenance use of creatine increases lean muscle mass, but does not necessarily help power output.


4: Scientific basis and practical aspects of creatine supplementation for athletes (Nutrition, Volume 20, Issues 7–8, July–August 2004, Pages 609–614[

A large number of studies have been published on creatine supplementation over the last decade. Many studies show that creatine supplementation in conjunction with resistance training augments gains in muscle strength and size. The underlying physiological mechanism(s) to explain this ergogenic effect remain unclear. Increases in muscle fiber hypertrophy and myosin heavy chain expression have been observed with creatine supplementation. Creatine supplementation increases acute weightlifting performance and training volume, which may allow for greater overload and adaptations to training. Creatine supplementation may also induce a cellular swelling in muscle cells, which in turn may affect carbohydrate and protein metabolism. Several studies point to the conclusion that elevated intramuscular creatine can enhance glycogen levels but an effect on protein synthesis/degradation has not been consistently detected. As expected there is a distribution of responses to creatine supplementation that can be largely explained by the degree of creatine uptake into muscle. Thus, there is wide interest in methods to maximize muscle creatine levels. A carbohydrate or carbohydrate/protein-induced insulin response appears to benefit creatine uptake. In summary, the predominance of research indicates that creatine supplementation represents a safe, effective, and legal method to enhance muscle size and strength responses to resistance training.
SUMMARY: Creatine and Carbs taken at the same time help with the development of muscle mass and power.


5: The Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry (Volume 8, Issue 2, February 1997, Pages 52–60).

Current dietary protein requirements were determined using essentially sedentary individuals and, therefore, are designed for the general population. Unfortunately, the recommendations from these studies have been applied to athletes as well. Because of the vast differences in daily energy expenditure alone this would seem to be a naive approach. Moreover in recent years, considerable evidence has accumulated on athletes, primarily those involved at each end of the exercise intensity-duration continuum, i.e., strength (weight lifting) to endurance (running, cycling, or swimming), suggesting that dietary protein needs may be greater by as much as 125% in comparison to sedentary individuals. The additional protein may be necessary for use as an auxiliary fuel for endurance exercise and as a supplementary source of amino acids to build and/or maintain the large muscle mass present in those who strength train. In addition, although more speculative, it is possible that other constituents in high quality protein sources, i.e., creatine, conjugated linoleic acid, carnosine, etc. may also be beneficial. Definitive dietary recommendations for various athletic populations must await further study, but the mass of current evidence indicates that individuals involved in strength/power/speed activities may benefit from intakes of about 1.7 to 1.8 g protein • g body mass−1 • day−1 (approximately 112–125% higher than the sedentary recommendation) and those who participate in endurance activities from about 1.2–1.4 g • kg−1 • d−1 (approximately 50 to 75% higher than the sedentary recommendation). Assuming total energy intake is sufficient to cover expenditure, these intakes can be obtained from a diet consisting of about 10% energy intake as protein. Some athletes may not consume this amount of protein, especially those who consume inadequate energy (dieters or those trying to maintain an arbitrary body mass for their activity, i.e., gymnasts, dancers, wrestlers, etc.), those who are growing (children, adolescents, women who are pregnant), or those who select diets which may exclude high quality protein sources (vegetarians and seniors). Despite the common practice of consuming greater amounts of protein (2–4 g • kg−1 • d−1) among strength athletes in particular, few data exist suggesting that this has any further benefit, i.e., there appears to be a ceiling effect. Finally, the concerns expressed routinely about liver or kidney problems with high protein diets have little scientific support; however, the easy accessibility of individual amino acid supplements poses a potentially serious threat because there are likely a variety of confounding interactions and the effects of mega doses of single amino acids are largely untested. Future studies are needed to fine tune these recommendations.
SUMMARY: Training for strength/power/speed (i.e. gains) may require UP TO 1.8g/kg body mass of protein. Endurance athletes will go in for 1.2-1.4g/kg/day.


6: Influence of weight training exercise and modification of hormonal response on skeletal muscle growth (Journal of Science and Medicine in Sport, Volume 4, Issue 4, December 2001, Pages 431–446)

To investigate the influence of carbohydrate (CHO) consumption on the acute hormonal response, and chronic adaptation to weight lifting exercise, two studies were conducted. Following a four-hour fast, seven young men (21.3 ± 3.5 y) performed (on two occasions) a nine-station weight lifting protocol, completing 3 sets of 10 repetitions at 75% of IRM (series 1). Randomly assigned, one session included the ingestion of a non-caloric placebo, and the other, a 6% CHO solution. For series 2, two groups of young men (21.3±1.5 y) participated in 12 weeks of progressive resistance weight training. Training for one group included the ingestion of a non-caloric placebo, and the other, a 6% CHO solution. In series 1, weight lifting exercise with CHO ingestion significantly (p < 0.05) elevated blood glucose and plasma insulin levels above baseline, as well as that occurring with the placebo. This resulted in a significant blunting of the cortisol response (7% with CHO compared to 99% with placebo). These findings indicate that CHO consumption during weight lifting exercise can modify the acute hormonal response to exercise. With series 2, CHO consumption continued to blunt the cortisol response to exercise during the twelve weeks of training. This is in contrast to significantly elevated cortisol levels observed for the placebo control group. Corresponding with the modified response patterns were differences in muscle growth. Weight training exercise with CHO ingestion resulted in significantly greater gains in both type I (19.1%) and type II (22.5%) muscle fibre area than weight training exercise alone. The difference in the cortisol response accounted for 74% of the variance (r= 0.8579, p= 0.006) of change in type I muscle fibre area, and 52.3% of the variance (r= 0.7231, p= 0.043) of change in type II muscle fibre area. These findings suggest that the modification of the cortisol response associated with CHO ingestion can positively impact the skeletal muscle hypertrophic adaptation to weigh training.
SUMMARY: Something I didn’t know... training without carbs in your system appears to not inhibit cortisol production, which is deleterious to muscle growth. So training fasted may not be a good idea for resistance purposes.
 
That much in one sitting would give some serious tingles iirc :o

It's over a day. The premise is something like 10mg/kg of BW, with 4 doses a day to avoid the tingles.

It's interesting that a lot of people (particularly those on MP reviews) take the 'tingles' as a boost, whereas it's just parasthaesia and isn't associated with any increase in blood glucose or hormonal response.

So it's probably going onto my next MP order. :loser:
 
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