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***The Official Vulkan API Thread***

Low levels api's arent new this just happens to be one i hope works well and is widely used

Why did we get dx12/vulkan/mantle?
Sonys low level api ofc that the playstations use and Amd seen and copied :)

Just another take on it :)
 
D.P. said:
Microsoft was talking about making a multi-threaded lower-level API since around 2007. Nvidia was pushing for a multi-threaded API since before that.

OpenGL Next was going in the direction of a multi-threaded faster API for mobile GPUs and modern desktops.

Console developer since the original Xbox were talking about the difference in draw calls between DX and the console APIs.




Mantle came late to the party but AMD acted on the desired of some developers. Nvidia just worked with Microsoft on DX12 which started before Mantle.
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Can't be bothered to find the video but a Dice devs was building mantle has a side project when battlefield 2 was just released. They already hit api limitation in that engine hence why he started working on mantle.

It was these same guys that approached amd and then mantle was born.
 
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D.P. said:
Microsoft was talking about making
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A big push into Windows Gaming....

And they gave us the Xbox!:p

D.P. said:
Microsoft was talking about making
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Their new commitment to PC gaming on Vista showing us Alan Wake...

And they gave us 360 Alan Wake...:p

D.P. said:
Microsoft was talking about making
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Their uber commitment to pushing PC gaming with W10 DX12 and they give us Quantum Break....

Only on W10 store(possibly no CrossFire if it follows ROTTR) despite lying through their back teeth that they were fully behind Steam.:p
 
AlamoX said:
dont you find it peculiar the change of direction in API after Mantle ? how everyone is making low level API, all advertising draw calls, overhead, and async compute ? before Mantle not a single firm announced any of that untill Mantle games showed up and benchs started rolling and the concept was proven and liked by users and devs alike ?
you can be anti-AMD, without being driven by the nose by your bias, let your emotions aside and use abit of logic
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You cant be serious. Open GL has been out for forever.
 
humbug said:
Why would developers ask AMD to develop a low level API if Microsoft are already doing it, and why did Microsoft use DX11 for the XBox One, why when announcing a new API for the XBox One after it had gone on sale did they also say no to a replacement API for desktop when pushed on the question? maybe thats why Developers asked AMD to do it.

If Microsoft has a new API in development before AMD they certainly didn't have it prepared for their own console and its not what they were telling Developers.
Its only after Mantle that Microsoft suddenly decided that they had and API in development for long before AMD. (why does it take Microsoft so much longer than AMD to come up with an API)

here is what i think. Mantle was intended for that console but it had strings attached, IE that it would also become DX12, Microsoft said no, they said no for the same reason there hasn't been a new API from Microsofty for 10 years, PC Gaming has no income for them. if anything it eats into their repeat superscription Xbox Live Console system.

The only reason they gave in is because AMD released it anyway, had MS not reacted they would have lost their API monopoly.
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You're a bit arse for tit there. Developers certainly did not approach AMD, AMD approached Dice/EA to create a low level API for them.
 
Pottsey said:
AMD spotted how well IMG had done with low level API’s and copied them. It wasn’t AMD that kick started the new wave of low level API’s. It was IMG.

Mantle was 2013, last DX was 2008 and IMG did low level API between those dates. Two examples being the 2011 low-level, to-the-metal code with the Playstation Vita which later turned into the Metal API used in 10’s of millions of devices and 100’s of games which if anything is what kick started todays wave of low level API's . They also had the low level OpenRL for the desktop cards which was version 1.0 in 2012.

What makes you think that was due to Mantle and not the work IMG was doing demoing the advantages of low level API’s?
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Wrong on so many levels. In the 1990's, every GPU manufacturer had their own Low abstraction API for their hardware. It was only the unification effect of DX that caused a shift away from their use. But at a cost of lower performance. But it meant devs could code for one api instead of six or more.

Consoles have always used low abstraction api's, even dx11 in the xbox one is not the same as dx on the pc. It is low abstracted, the major change to dx12 on the xbox one was to unify it with dx12 on the pc while improving how it is coded for.

Stop with this ridiculous notion that img did all this. And it was AMD's push on the industry that returned to the use of low abstraction api's on the pc.
DX was lying stagnant till mantle was talked about, yes dx12 could have been discussed for years before but that does not mean in its current form, hence why dx11.3 appeared so quickly alongside dx12. Which was more than likely what dx12 was going to be in its original state.

OpenGL next as it was called was in a shambolic state since 2008 ish when the industry squabbled and the butchered baby OpenGL 3 was then created. It was only because of and allowing them to use mantle that all of the companies gained a clear direction for the API. And to undermine amd's contribution is ridiculous. if they had not let them use mantle then I doubt vulksn would have released at all due to industry bickering.

OpenGL is in an incredibly poor state. The only decent version is OpenGL es, and only since version 3.1 has it reached feature parity with OpenGL 3, but without all of the ridiculous methods of doing the same thing. All while having very decent conformance tests so you know that driver makers will produce drivers that will run your code the same across different hardware.
 
LambChop said:
Ah ok I got it. So Dice/EA had Mantle for years, went to AMD with it and AMD built it for them.

AMD have absolutely no shame making it out they did it. I dont expect anything less though.
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Johan Anderson siad:
I have been talking about this for years with various graphics vendors, finally i'm happy to announce we are working with AMD on a solution, its called Mantle.
Mantle is exactly what i wanted, a low level high performance API, a console style graphics API for PC, YAY!
Its being built by AMD in close collaboration with us.
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As Tommy said. "collaboration"
AMD have been clear from the start this was a combined effort between them, DICE and others.


opethdisciple said:
So this new Nvidia Vulkan beta driver. It will eventually be incorporated in to the normal drivers? Rather than existing as two separate packages.
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I don't know but i would think so, yes.
 
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LambChop said:
Thats what I said isnt it. Dice had Mantle for years, approached AMD to build it for them and AMD duely obliged.

Problem I have is that AMD say its theirs lol.
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You can't have an API without having an API.
DICE wanted an API better than what was available to them, not just DICE but many other developers too, because Microsoft refused.

DICE and other developers talked to all vendors as well as continuing talks with Microsoft.

Finally AMD agreed to pick up the 'Mantle', they then collaborated to build the API.

Its like this:
You have an idea for something, but you don't have the knowledge to make it happen, you may have some knowledge but you need an expert. so you go talk to some experts, finally you get one to agree to help.
AMD have been very clear from the start that Mantle was born out of Developer request, particulary DICE, they have been just as clear Mantle was built in collaboration with DICE.
 
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tommybhoy said:
Mantle is theirs.

If Dice made the api, it would have worked cross vendor.
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With Microsoft refusing DICE hopes no doubt would have been for AMD, Nvidia and perhaps Intel to collaborate and build a cross vendor API.

For whatever reason that didn't happen, however... now that Khronos have it it is cross vendor.

Its all planed and its all worked out, even Morcosoft had to react and give us DX12.

Job well done!
 
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