***The Official Vulkan API Thread***

[Gregster]

Come on chaps, we have done this to death now. Can we perhaps discuss some of the pros and cons of Vulkan? Will it succeed? Is there room for another API on Windows? Will this lift Linux into a real Microsoft competitor? Those sort of things.

 

[tommybhoy]

 

[humbug]

Come on chaps, we have done this to death now. Can we perhaps discuss some of the pros and cons of Vulkan? Will it succeed? Is there room for another API on Windows? Will this lift Linux into a real Microsoft competitor? Those sort of things.

We are. Mantle is integral to Vulkan. take that how you like but we are on topic

 

[humbug]

Vulkan will succeed if it continues to evolve, to hold MS to account, to be better than MS are willing or capable to be.

For that all vendors need to collaborate in evolving it.
This is the whole point of the Khronos Group, but, their last collaborative API is a failure. The Khronos Group have failed in their purpose.
Now they have another chance at it, if they don't learn from past mistakes they will fail again.
They must put aside the commercial interests of their respective employers and get into bed with their competition.
Any individual not able to do that should not have a chair at the Khronos table.

With Microsoft refusing DICE hopes no doubt would have been for AMD, Nvidia and perhaps Intel to collaborate and build a cross vendor API.

For whatever reason that didn't happen, however... now that Khronos have it it is cross vendor.

Its all planed and its all worked out, even Morcosoft had to react and give us DX12.

Job well done!

 

[maonayze]

man you have a serious problem with logic

+1 to that. He's the first to ever make my ignore list as he doesnt come up with anything that's not covered in bile for AMD.

Some of the threads on here are starting to get trolling that not only wants AMD to fail but they are also now wanting anything that is even remotely linked to AMD to not be true or wiped from memory.

 

[maonayze]

Come on chaps, we have done this to death now. Can we perhaps discuss some of the pros and cons of Vulkan? Will it succeed? Is there room for another API on Windows? Will this lift Linux into a real Microsoft competitor? Those sort of things.

If I were Khronos I would be having some serious discussions with Valve. They need each others support to get things moving in a positive direction and get some traction behind it all.

I would love to have a dual boot Win 10/Linux (Steam OS etc..) as long as it gives us some benefits of course.

 

[Gregster]

We are. Mantle is integral to Vulkan. take that how you like but we are on topic

If you are happy going over the same ground again and again and again, knock yourself out but from a personal point of view, I am bored with "Vulkan is Mantle/Vulkan isn't Mantle" but I am interested in what is what as far as the API goes and to what level of use it might see and genuinely interested from a potential user POV. I am sure that Mantle is a big part of Vulkan as well and everything research wise has brought me to that decision. However, I think we all know that and maybe better to ignore certain posts at times?

If I were Khronos I would be having some serious discussions with Valve. They need each others support to get things moving in a positive direction and get some traction behind it all.

I would love to have a dual boot Win 10/Linux (Steam OS etc..) as long as it gives us some benefits of course.

Good comment and yer, I would think that Khronos are in cahoots with Valve already and discussing how they will proceed. I would happily dual boot if it was worthwhile and even take on Linux over Windows but I need something to draw me in and then keep me in and I don't want to be a killjoy... Linux and SteamOS don't currently have that bite that is needed.

 

[Dygaza]

Gregster, did you do any gpu usage comparision from that Talos between DX11/OGL/Vulkan?

 

[Gregster]

Gregster, did you do any gpu usage comparision from that Talos between DX11/OGL/Vulkan?

I tested Vulkan Vs DX11

And I tested Vulkan Vs OpenGL

GPU usage was at 99% for all of the API tests.

 

[humbug]

If I were Khronos I would be having some serious discussions with Valve. They need each others support to get things moving in a positive direction and get some traction behind it all.

I would love to have a dual boot Win 10/Linux (Steam OS etc..) as long as it gives us some benefits of course.

Linux like most Open Source projects suffers from being user unfriendly.

Its a great OS in many ways but in other ways terrible, the main problem with it is its not foolproof, its very easy to break it and your average user will break it at some point.
Its not like Windows which is damned near impossible to break even by the most idiotic of users.

But more than that because of the nature of it the user will at somepoint have to learn how to make adjustments to the system its self.

For example, Video / GPU Drivers, its not a simple task of click and install, if you want the latest and best drivers often there is some programming involved.
Even installing it, some people have issues with the screen being black or off during instillation, this is because one vendor in particular will not release the source code for their drivers for some of their GPU's, the latest ones.
So there is no Driver on the instillation ISO, to fix that you have to go into code and make adjustments to the kernel just so that you can see what you are doing while installing it.

There are many examples of this with Linux.

Unless all of that is sorted out it will never work for 90% of its potential market.

The simple fact is Linux needs to be more like Windows, in that; it just works.

 

[Nexus18]

+1 to that. He's the first to ever make my ignore list as he doesnt come up with anything that's not covered in bile for AMD.

Some of the threads on here are starting to get trolling that not only wants AMD to fail but they are also now wanting anything that is even remotely linked to AMD to not be true or wiped from memory.

Haha yup +1

I got a warning and my post deleted for a 'personal attack' using his same reference against him yet his doesn't get anything despite more or less calling all amd owners or/and future polaris owners brain dead Dons must have a different set of rules for him and flopper


The only reason I would ever put Linux on is for access to any exclusive games that I want. Unless Linux catches up to windows in more or less every way, it will never be my main system.

 

[AlamoX]

If I were Khronos I would be having some serious discussions with Valve. They need each others support to get things moving in a positive direction and get some traction behind it all.

I would love to have a dual boot Win 10/Linux (Steam OS etc..) as long as it gives us some benefits of course.

well the 2 biggest firms that have been really pushing for vulkan is AMD and Valve, Gabe newell made a statement at the launch of Vulkan :
"We are extremely pleased at the industry’s rapid execution on the Vulkan API initiative. Due to Vulkan’s cross platform availability, high performance and healthy open source ecosystem, we expect to see rapid uptake by software developers, far exceeding the adoption of similar APIs which are limited to specific operating systems"
and let's be honest most Devs are fed up with microsoft, and i am confident that they will pick up Vulkan, and it doesnt have to be as good as Mantle or DX12, but it needs to be decent quality and most importantly evolving at a higher rate than DX did in the past.
the last microsoft game did exactly what ppl feared, exclusif to Win10, and to top it all off, windows store exclusive, microsoft have no will to play nice or to commit to anything to PC gaming, Valve knows that, i just hope they continue with SteamOS and aggressivly push vulkan on steam

The only reason I would ever put Linux on is for access to any exclusive games that I want. Unless Linux catches up to windows in more or less every way, it will never be my main system.

ppl undermine the importance of gaming in OS, the only thing holding back linux is gaming
games start rolling > vendors will invest on drivers > software start rolling > ppl start adopting, but if you dont have gaming it will stay a niche, so hopefuly Vulkan/SteamOS changes this

 

[Mauller]

Lookup 'renderpass' on the gpuopen vulkan section. It is a very neat feature and aimed at performance for tile based rendering, but it also has performance advantages for direct renderers.

 

[Pottsey]

“Stop with this ridiculous notion that img did all this. And it was AMD's push on the industry that returned to the use of low abstraction api's on the pc.

DX was lying stagnant till mantle was talked about, yes dx12 could have been discussed for years before but that does not mean in its current form, hence why dx11.3 appeared so quickly alongside dx12. Which was more than likely what dx12 was going to be in its original state.””

It’s not a ridiculous notion when IMG did do all that. IMG was pushing for low level API’s and AMD joined in over a year later. It was not AMD that returned the industry to low abstraction API’s. Did you not stop to wonder why AMD teamed up with IMG on low level API’s? It’s because IMG was already trying to push the market in the same direction.

DX was lying stagnant until IMG proved how good level API’s are with metal not due to Mantle. Mantle was for years a failed attempt at low level APIs. Metal was the first modern low level API to be successful and proved how good it can be and Metal pre dates Mantel by over 1 year.

You say I am undermine AMD's contribution but it sounds to me like you are undermining IMG contribution. It was Metal that kick started the modern low level API's being the first successful modern low level API. Metal dates back to 2011 and has rolled out across millions of units/devices and countless games. So how can you say Mantle which hardly got any support and failed is what kick started modern low level API's?

“And to undermine amd's contribution is ridiculous”

I am not trying to undermine AMD contributions. You are undermining the other company’s contributions while giving AMD too much credit. I am giving AMD the correct amount of credit.

 

[opethdisciple]

Does the Talos Principal already use Vulkan, or are those videos just tech demo's?

 

[LambChop]

Come on chaps, we have done this to death now. Can we perhaps discuss some of the pros and cons of Vulkan? Will it succeed? Is there room for another API on Windows? Will this lift Linux into a real Microsoft competitor? Those sort of things.

Pro's - Low Level API, possible boost in fps in games

Con's - s.o.a.b to program for, alien to most devs so it may not be taken up

My own would be what is it going to do that DX12 wont ?

 

[LambChop]

well the 2 biggest firms that have been really pushing for vulkan is AMD and Valve, Gabe newell made a statement at the launch of Vulkan :
"We are extremely pleased at the industry’s rapid execution on the Vulkan API initiative. Due to Vulkan’s cross platform availability, high performance and healthy open source ecosystem, we expect to see rapid uptake by software developers, far exceeding the adoption of similar APIs which are limited to specific operating systems"
and let's be honest most Devs are fed up with microsoft, and i am confident that they will pick up Vulkan, and it doesnt have to be as good as Mantle or DX12, but it needs to be decent quality and most importantly evolving at a higher rate than DX did in the past.
the last microsoft game did exactly what ppl feared, exclusif to Win10, and to top it all off, windows store exclusive, microsoft have no will to play nice or to commit to anything to PC gaming, Valve knows that, i just hope they continue with SteamOS and aggressivly push vulkan on steam

Thats the problem I have. If you told me tomorrow were all using Vulkan from now on and no more DX, then I'd be happy, as long as it performed as well or better than DX then who wouldnt want to use it.

Most of this is words though, Mantle was supposed to be the big thing, granted it was AMD that was pushing it so thats the down side there, but with Vulkan you have it available to everyone and everyone involved is pushing it but I just cant see them move from DX, I just cant see it... the same way Mantle died, no-one really cards about it apart from the people involved in the project. It was used in generally crap games and in games that actually didnt need Mantle.

Trust me when I say this, i want Vulkan to succeed as I pretty much dont like MS with their locked to win10 crap or their store nonsense either.

 

[humbug]

Thats the problem I have. If you told me tomorrow were all using Vulkan from now on and no more DX, then I'd be happy, as long as it performed as well or better than DX then who wouldnt want to use it.

Most of this is words though, Mantle was supposed to be the big thing, granted it was AMD that was pushing it so thats the down side there, but with Vulkan you have it available to everyone and everyone involved is pushing it but I just cant see them move from DX, I just cant see it... the same way Mantle died, no-one really cards about it apart from the people involved in the project. It was used in generally crap games and in games that actually didnt need Mantle.

Trust me when I say this, i want Vulkan to succeed as I pretty much dont like MS with their locked to win10 crap or their store nonsense either.

As i said before Vulkan will succeed if Khronos get their act together, that means working together instead of for their employers commercial interests, IMO thats why OpenGL failed.
Microsoft have no interest in doing anything more than they must.

If they fail again they might as well disband...

 

[LambChop]

As i said before Vulkan will succeed if Khronos get their act together, that means working together instead of for their employers commercial interests, IMO thats why OpenGL failed.
Microsoft have no interest in doing anything more than they must.

If they fail again they might as well disband...

MS have the financial clout to ensure DX12 is taken up at the detriment of Vulkan. Thats one worry imo.

 

[humbug]

MS have the financial clout to ensure DX12 is taken up at the detriment of Vulkan. Thats one worry imo.

i know what your saying but enough developers know Microsofts game and have no interest in dirty dealing with them.

These developers (Not just DICE/EA) have publicly snubbed Microsoft and called them out on their DX API politics.
Vulkan will enjoy support from some of the biggest names in the industry, Microsofts influence and power in PC Gaming is weak and diminishing.