Motorsport Off Topic Thread

So if RBR and possibly STR pull out and we get three cars per remaining teams for 2016...

I wonder how many drivers will be kicking themselves for agreeing new contracts already, eliminating them from the chance to drive the 3rd Mercedes, Ferrari, Williams etc.?

How will they work pit garages with 3 cars per team during the race? One pit box for each team like now with two cars, or something different?
 
Skeeter said:
I still stand by my view that they must have been confident of getting an engine before terminating the Renault deal. Ending that contract early across both teams would have required approval from high up as I expect it came with some buy out penalties that won't have been pocket change. That's not something you approve if all you've got to go on is a casual chat with Toto over lunch.
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But they didn't get a formal deal in place first, surely that's blatantly obvious and the likes of Horner aren't stupid enough to roll the dice on something that could put them out of F1 next year.

If they'd gone around securing a Merc and/or a Ferrari deal in the background, even for next year, before kicking off with Renault that would make sense, but this just doesn't, unless they're looking for some backup to force Merc/Ferrari.

Essentially, whinge enough and paint the picture that the big bad engine suppliers are scared of supplying engines and are forcing them out of the sport, then wait for the FIA/FOM to force their hand. Except so far that doesn't seem to be happening and now they seem to be panicking that they may actually not have an engine supply...
 
UTmaniac said:
So if RBR and possibly STR pull out and we get three cars per remaining teams for 2016...

I wonder how many drivers will be kicking themselves for agreeing new contracts already, eliminating them from the chance to drive the 3rd Mercedes, Ferrari, Williams etc.?

How will they work pit garages with 3 cars per team during the race? One pit box for each team like now with two cars, or something different?
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I think only Merc and Ferrari have the kind of money to field 3 cars.
 
Red Bull leaving F1 will be a blow to the sport irrespective of how they've behaved. RB is in pretty much everything - a Red Bull sponsored car just won Bathurst. It would leave a big hole to have a sponsor in pretty much all motorsport except F1. Highlights the problems faced by F1.

I'd be genuinely surprised if RB pull out. As with most crisis issues within F1 there will be much brinkmanship for as long as possible then an outcome that "sort of" suits everyone involved will be agreed.
 
in all of this maybe Mercedes and Ferrari are just bored of the Redbull quit threats. They happned a lot last year, and now again this year and Merc and Ferrari are now just saying "go on then..."

Aside from the "scared" factor going around, there is still the fact that ferrari would need to effectively double the engineers workforce who build/maintain/supply/support the teams if they shift from 2 teams to 4 (factoring out manor as they are running year old engines that are getting no development), as well has have to deal with a more demanding customer base as well, lets face it redbull arent going to be a roll over customer like Manor..

Merc already supply 4 teams, thats 1 over the regulated 3, and already FIA approval is needed. Further to this even if 1 team more team was added thats still more engineers needed for merc.

Its not just as simple as someone asks for engines and they get them.
 
UTmaniac said:
So if RBR and possibly STR pull out and we get three cars per remaining teams for 2016...

I wonder how many drivers will be kicking themselves for agreeing new contracts already, eliminating them from the chance to drive the 3rd Mercedes, Ferrari, Williams etc.?

How will they work pit garages with 3 cars per team during the race? One pit box for each team like now with two cars, or something different?
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deuse said:
I think only Merc and Ferrari have the kind of money to field 3 cars.
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I agree with deuse... :eek:

But in seriousness, this is the case. The likes of Manor, Sauber and Force India will not be in a position to run 3 cars at all. Even some larger teams like Williams and Lotus would seriously struggle.

And I can't see any way that the FIA would get approval from the teams to allow some people to run 3 cars and others not (its too late to change 2016 rules now without unanimous agreement from the teams, isn't it?).

So in reality, if STR and RBR quit, we will have a 9 team, 18 car field next year. If Renault don't sort out a purchase of Lotus then it will be 8 teams and 16 cars.

It might lead to a changes for 2017 allowing 3 cars, but F1 would have to survive that long first.
 
Drukk said:
Interesting as I read Ferrari were only interested in selling Red Bull 2015 engines. Wonder if that is a new rule or one that has always been there.

I'm guessing behind the scenes pressure will be applied to Ferrari to supply them those 2016 engines.
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Customer engines have been current year for a while now. Manor had dispensation to use last year's engine.
This ruling clarifies future deals, might scupper Red Bull though.
Andi.
 
Yeah Manor running old engines was an exception. There was a proposal to allow it as standard as a way to cut costs (prior year engines being cheaper than current ones), but the FIA have decided against it.

With no in season development and a single spec per manufacturer the rules now return to how they were in 2014, everyone using the same spec as their manufacturer.
 
Syla5 said:
Then why has it been in the media before that they had to seek FIA approval this year to supply to Lotus, and next year to supply to Manor?
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It hasn't been? They needed approval to supply Brawn engines in 2009, but since the V6s came in the 3 teams per engine cap was removed (it had to be, we had 11 teams and 3 manufacturers in 2014, and 3x3 is 9 :p)
 
Duke said:
Worth pointing out this is only for the launch spec, so they don't need to pass on engine developments during the season. None of the Merc runners will get thier v4 introduced a few races ago for example.
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Not in 2016. There won't be any in season development next year (or any year up to 2020), they have closed that loophole.

1 spec of engine from each manufacturer will be homoligated on or before the 28th February 2016, and then that spec of engine will be used by all teams using that manufacturers engine for the entire of the 2016 season.

Launch spec is the only spec. This year is a glitch due to an error in the rules.
 
Duke said:
Worth pointing out this is only for the launch spec, so they don't need to pass on engine developments during the season. None of the Merc runners will get thier v4 introduced a few races ago for example.
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This year is unique in that in-season development is taking place. Next year the engines will be homologated at the end of February and after that the spec wont change. So the engine at the end of the year will be the same spec as that at the start, the only changes that can be made are for reliability and safety reasons, and i cant see the FIA letting the manufacturers keep those for themselves.
 
So which of Mercedes, Ferrari will now try to come out as the one that is not scared of competition for some good PR? They know that Red Bull can and probably will build better car then they can.

Wonder if we end up with one supplying Toro Rosso and the other one Red Bull.

I can't see Renault or Honda supplying either.
 
In reality its probably the complete opposite. The powers that be higher up in the parent companies have put pretty interpretable blockers on Mercedes or Ferrari supplying Red Bull.

Their options now appear to be only between Renault and Honda, both of which look unlikely, but mildly less unlikely than Mercedes or Ferrari.

If the Renault talks come to nothing I think we may see RBR and STR going to the FIA and asking for special permission to use 1 year old Ferraris, like Manor have this year. And I expect the FIA would allow it rather than lose 2 teams.
 
Vertigo1 said:
Another issue which I believe still grates with Mercedes and Ferrari is that Renault were allowed to make unilateral changes to their engine back in 2008 in the name of "performance equalisation". They believe this allowed them to draw level on engine performance and then Newey's superior aero lead to the four years of total dominance that followed shortly afterward.
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You might want to remove the rose-tinted glasses there. 4 years of total total dominance? Nah. OK, four drivers titles on the bounce for Seb, but dig into the results and he squeaked home by a couple of points in 2010 and 2012. 2011 and 2013 he dominated the back half of the season.

Red Bull were certainly less dominant than Mercedes have been these last two years.
 
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