1 Big problem in relationship

[[FnG]magnolia]

OP Burnt by previous wife buys new fiancee a ring and 70k investment to house.

Asks OCUK for help..

Is this thread for real?

It's basically r/mensrights where women are vapid, stealing whores and men are valiant, stable, dependable breadwinners because some people don't know which century they are living in.

 

[Zairs]

Why does buying a house give out the message he wants to be married ?

Why does buying a ring give out the message he wants to be married

 

[LordSplodge]

Such a good job, because so many guys are just whipped and too pathetic to stand their ground when a woman whinges and they cater to her every needs.

They are?

Pulling that kind of crap tells me she is not emotionally mature enough to be trusted with your money at stake.

Hyperbole at its finest.

 

[LordSplodge]

Do I value the woman's contribution to a marriage? OF COURSE. She puts in time with the kids, keeping the family life together, and all sorts of contributions that can't really be measured. That's why I'm all about CHILD support until after college, and even structuring a situation where the girl I was with can get back on her feet and become self-sufficient.
.

Clearly you value your hard work over her hard work of raising children.

It is entirely possible that the woman could also come into the relationship in a better off finacial position. There's always going to be risk from one side and divorce doesn't automatically mean you are going to lose 50% of your assets.

 

[Haggisman]

OP sends out all the signals he is committed - buys a house using a large sum of his money, even buys her an engagement ring! Then he turns around and says he does not want to get married? Talk about mixed messages.

Why didnt they just rent? Or buy a home on equal footing?

The engagement ring was a stupid idea, I'll give you that, but what does the OP buying himself a house have to do with the relationship really? Maybe he was going to buy a house anyway? Obviously he didn't want to throw money away paying for someone else's mortgage, and buying a home on equal footing clearly wasn't an option if his partner didn't have the money to put in.

What the OP is saying is "I want the home, I want the girlfriend to live with and I want everything that is mine to remain mine forever".

And what exactly is wrong with that? Why should she be entitled to half of his belongings that were his before he ever met her? Assets acquired during the relationship? Sure, I think they should be split 50/50, but anything from before the relationship IMO should be off limits.

Well life does not work like that. A relationship is an investment. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. It is a chance you take.

And what is she "investing"?

Seems to me like everything was OK so long as the relationship was on his terms. So maybe he needs to find a woman who is as happy with his terms as he is?

So what you're suggesting is that instead he should ignore what he wants and have the relationship on her terms?

I would be interested to know where this £70k came from? If he was cleared out in 2008 but 5 years later has £70k, either he is a high earner or has some inheritence? If he has saved it, that equates to £1100 per month into savings for 5 years straight! Not many people can afford that!

Maybe it's all he had left after his previous divorce?

 

[Martini1991]

Why does buying a ring give out the message he wants to be married

That's irrelevant to the question I was asking.
OP's stated house was before the ring, and the ring was also the product of ;

Not long after that she said that although she knows I wont get married she'd like a ring on her finger so we got engaged, she promised then that she would never mention marriage again.

Which isn't the same as people are making it out, you're making it sound like he's went out, bought a ring and proposed to her/got engaged, when that's not the case from the OP's version of events.

While I think pandering to her needs with a ring was a silly idea, it doesn't change his intentions.

 

[Musty Pie]

It's basically r/mensrights where women are vapid, stealing whores and men are valiant, stable, dependable breadwinners because some people don't know which century they are living in.

I agree with Mags here.

I guess it would surprise most of the Neanderthals here to hear that my misses earns more than I do ...

I wonder if she is on mumsnet posting about her fears of me robbing her "cash"?

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Clearly you value your hard work over her hard work of raising children.

It is entirely possible that the woman could also come into the relationship in a better off finacial position. There's always going to be risk from one side and divorce doesn't automatically mean you are going to lose 50% of your assets.

Building a company for example from the ground up to a success versus raising kids, I don't see everyone making successful companies all over the place do you? and I said i'm in agreement with child support/financial help to compensate the woman / allow her to become financially stable after a break up but she is not taking away 50% of what I've worked for years prior to meeting her. That is just absurd.

And bottom line is yes I would value it more because I know which one is not exactly a natural thing and probably takes years off your life...

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

What if it were a woman who built the company?

e : actually, I'm not getting into this with you. You have an opinion and I won't change it so I won't bother. Good luck with your future relationships.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

What if it were a woman who built the company?

Same thing applies, it's not one rule for men and another for woman. The rules apply universally.

If you marry a girl who is rich/successful before you come along you are not entitled to anything she has worked for at all. However she should do the same if you end up raising the kids, she should give you child support/financial support (But not 50% of her wealth) to allow you to become independent again after your marriage breaks down.

 

[Narj]

TBH if I were looking at getting married I'd probably sell the house and get her to go 50/50 on a new place, squirrelling some cash away in case the worst happened.

The whole marriage thing seems like a massive load of grief considering it shouldn't have any bearing on how you feel about each other. Plus you need a lawyer to split up.

If you've both taken proper steps to make appropriate wills, surely that'd get around the potential headaches in the event of one of you dying unexpectedly.

 

[Zairs]

get a pre nup, they do hold weight, obviously as time goes on that weight becomes less especially if kids are involved. saying sell the house to get a new one is just silly, she would have as much entitle money as a share in the house

 

[BubbySoup]

It's probably been mentioned but cohabitation can also bring about a split in assets up to 50%.

I forget the case law (it's been years) but essentially acting married and living together and all the rest can bring about implied rights to couples.

Yep, this happened to my best friend. She was with a guy for 10+ years and when they separated, everything was split 50/50 even though he tried to fight it.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

The engagement ring was a stupid idea, I'll give you that, but what does the OP buying himself a house have to do with the relationship really? Maybe he was going to buy a house anyway? Obviously he didn't want to throw money away paying for someone else's mortgage, and buying a home on equal footing clearly wasn't an option if his partner didn't have the money to put in.

He said "We bought a house together almost a year ago". This implies it is a decision they made as a couple, but perhaps I misundertood?

Well then he had a choice not to buy until such time as they were on equal footing didn't he? Or, finish with her and buy on his own. If buying a house was on his agenda, fair enough, but I expect if he had that £70k left from his previous marriage it would not have taken till 2013 to buy a place, would it?

And what exactly is wrong with that? Why should she be entitled to half of his belongings that were his before he ever met her? Assets acquired during the relationship? Sure, I think they should be split 50/50, but anything from before the relationship IMO should be off limits.

Nothing wrong with that at all. I never said there was. You simply dont get married and avoid serious relationships. Or you get into a relationship with someone who is on an equal footing or has the same life goals as you (IE someone who does not want to get married).

You cant get together with someone who is after marriage and then complain when things go south because you dont want to get married.

And what is she "investing"?

Investment is not all monetary. Time and effort are all elements. Whilst I am sure they have a nice house, I am equally sure she would have been happy to live in rented accomodation so they are on a more equal footing (thats an assumption based on general courtesy in a relationship).

If the OP decides to buy a house with her anyway, knowing full well she cannot put in any of her own money then that is his choice. But to then use that fact as a bargaining chip is a very poor show.

At least she pays towards the mortgage and the upkeep of the house.

So what you're suggesting is that instead he should ignore what he wants and have the relationship on her terms?

Is it an either/or equation? No. What I am saying is compromise is part of a relationship. Middle ground. The 'my way or the highway' mindset will never work in a relationship.

But the main issue here is a fundamental difference in life goals, and this is something where compromise usually cannot be made. She wants marriage, he does not. No problem, call it a day and go separate ways.

But to string her along with a maybe after being so staunchly against marriage is, as I have said, a bit lame. The decent thing to do would be to end it and let both of them move on and find people who share the same life goals.

Maybe it's all he had left after his previous divorce?

Neither of us know. That is why I asked the question.

 

[Narj]

Yep, this happened to my best friend. She was with a guy for 10+ years and when they separated, everything was split 50/50 even though he tried to fight it.

Were children involved?

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla...g_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm

Good Article on Cohabiting and rights here

 

[LordSplodge]

I said i'm in agreement with child support/financial help to compensate the woman / allow her to become financially stable after a break up but she is not taking away 50% of what I've worked for years prior to meeting her. That is just absurd.

And bottom line is yes I would value it more because I know which one is not exactly a natural thing and probably takes years off your life...

Nobody is ever going to go into a relationship or marriage on equal footing. Without children a 50/50 split isn't likely, with children it's possible but i'd expect the child to be the most important thing to be looked after and that may require more assets being given to the primary custodian of the children.

People get screwed over in bad relationships all the time but that's often because their actions are rash.

As for you comment on it being more natural, I assume you mean making money? Well whilst both that and marriage are constructs made by mankind there is plenty of evidence in nature for mating for life. So on that aspect it is more natural to mate for life (be that via marriage or whatever) than it is to do business.

 

[BubbySoup]

Were children involved?

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla...g_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm

Good Article on Cohabiting and rights here

No, no children involved - it was just the 2 of them and 2 cats I don't know all the details, but I do know it almost ended up in court and both parties had solicitors involved form the start.

 

[Zairs]

10+ years a 50/50 split sounds fair

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Yep, this happened to my best friend. She was with a guy for 10+ years and when they separated, everything was split 50/50 even though he tried to fight it.

That is precisely what I'm against. (Depending on how money was divided in those 10 years they could have both paid evenly for stuff but if your friend say was a millionaire before meeting her and then when they divorced 10 years later he has 1.5 million and then loses 750k that is ridiculous.

If you are a financially successful man who has earned his keep it's just a plain gamble to put yourself into a situation where that can happen, I find it mind boggling there is no way to protect yourself legally from this. At the very least you should be able to protect the money you earned before you were together.

Would you sit down at a poker table and bet 50% of your wealth on cards? It may be a game of luck but peoples emotions are wildly unpredictable too and can change at any given moment.

The problem with marriage is as much as everyone on here keeps saying OP is distrustful and has issues does he really? or is he just being smart. If you read into marriage a bit more and look at it logically it does always favour the woman more than the man. You cannot argue with that.

Emotionally a marriage breaking down is bad enough and can destroy you, but then financially destroying you as well, it's just too much of a risk if I was super rich (Which i'm not). I see no problem with marriage itself but it is the legal situation that I have to put myself in that I am fully against.

Bottom line is why do I need the government to ratify my relationship anyway... *shrug*

 

[nick.lidgett]

You're forgetting that you have to be able to live and support yourself adequately after a divorce. If you divorce when you hit 30, then you've got a long road ahead of you.

It's fine if you're a 90 year old millionaire marrying a 26 year old strumpet.

Im not forgetting anything, thank you very much. A divorce isnt something that hangs around your neck for the rest of youre life, at 30 years old how would it be difficult to pick up the pieces and carry on? You would still have your job, you would just need to find somewhere new to live, a PITA for sure but hardly something thats going to ruin the remainder of your life.

For all of you guys that dont believe in getting married because you feel its an old fashioned sentiment that does not fit into a modern society thats fine I can accept that, but the ones that dont believe in it because the other person gets half, no matter how much or little they contribute financially should see a shrink.