1 Big problem in relationship

That is precisely what I'm against. (Depending on how money was divided in those 10 years they could have both paid evenly for stuff but if your friend say was a millionaire before meeting her and then when they divorced 10 years later he has 1.5 million and then loses 750k that is ridiculous.

If you are a financially successful man who has earned his keep it's just a plain gamble to put yourself into a situation where that can happen, I find it mind boggling there is no way to protect yourself legally from this. At the very least you should be able to protect the money you earned before you were together.

Would you sit down at a poker table and bet 50% of your wealth on cards? It may be a game of luck but peoples emotions are wildly unpredictable too and can change at any given moment.

The problem with marriage is as much as everyone on here keeps saying OP is distrustful and has issues does he really? or is he just being smart. If you read into marriage a bit more and look at it logically it does always favour a woman more than the man. You cannot argue with that.

they weren't married
 
Nobody is ever going to go into a relationship or marriage on equal footing.

I agree, and that is totally fine.

Without children a 50/50 split isn't likely, with children it's possible but i'd expect the child to be the most important thing to be looked after and that may require more assets being given to the primary custodian of the children.

That is true you should support your spouse if she/he is raising the child, however recently the actor Matt Le Blanc from friends was ordered to pay 15k a month in child support I do not know any child that costs 15k a month to raise that is just ludicrous. Edit: He also has a prenup, he was married to this woman for only 4 years too.

People get screwed over in bad relationships all the time but that's often because their actions are rash.

That is precisely why you cannot gamble with emotions, human beings are irrational and unpredictable and our emotions are pretty much governed by our limbic system and not our prefrontal cortex which is responsible for logic and rationality.

So on that aspect it is more natural to mate for life (be that via marriage or whatever) than it is to do business.

Human beings are not naturally monogamous. If we were people wouldn't be cheating all the time and the temptation to cheat wouldn't be constant imo. Relationships would just work if that was the case.
 
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Nothing wrong with that at all. I never said there was. You simply dont get married and avoid serious relationships.

A serious relationship doesn't need to involve marriage.

You can have a relationship which is identical in every single way to being married, without being married.

You cant get together with someone who is after marriage and then complain when things go south because you dont want to get married.

This works both ways, you cant get together with someone who is doesn't want marriage and then complain when things go south because you want to get married.

Investment is not all monetary. Time and effort are all elements. Whilst I am sure they have a nice house, I am equally sure she would have been happy to live in rented accomodation so they are on a more equal footing (thats an assumption based on general courtesy in a relationship).

The OP is also investing time and effort, along with his £70k...

If the OP decides to buy a house with her anyway, knowing full well she cannot put in any of her own money then that is his choice. But to then use that fact as a bargaining chip is a very poor show.

I don't see where he's using it as a bargaining chip?

He's protecting his assets, which IMO is perfectly reasonable.

Is it an either/or equation? No. What I am saying is compromise is part of a relationship. Middle ground. The 'my way or the highway' mindset will never work in a relationship.

In the case of marriage, yes it is an either/or equation. Marriage is binary, you're either married or not married, there isn't a third option in the middle (unless you want to count some of the "alternatives" e.g. a handfasting? :p)

I really don't see the fuss about marriage, it doesn't achieve anything...

Im not forgetting anything, thank you very much. A divorce isnt something that hangs around your neck for the rest of youre life, at 30 years old how would it be difficult to pick up the pieces and carry on? You would still have your job, you would just need to find somewhere new to live, a PITA for sure but hardly something thats going to ruin the remainder of your life.

So your ex keeps the house - you have to move out and find somewhere new to live. Except you can't afford it because you're still having to pay the mortgage on your house, maintenance to your ex, legal costs and child support, so you end up digging into your savings. You finally get on top of everything after 5-6 years, but have no savings left. Boom, there goes your nice retirement fund...

I take it you've never been in that kind of situation then?

Building a company for example from the ground up to a success versus raising kids, I don't see everyone making successful companies all over the place do you? .

You don't have kids do you ;)

Not everyone brings up kids well either, it takes a lot of hard work, dedication and sacrifice, and unlike building a company, if it gets too much for you, you can't just turn round and decide you've had enough.
 
So your ex keeps the house - you have to move out and find somewhere new to live. Except you can't afford it because you're still having to pay the mortgage on your house, maintenance to your ex, legal costs and child support, so you end up digging into your savings. You finally get on top of everything after 5-6 years, but have no savings left. Boom, there goes your nice retirement fund...

Why would the ex keep the house and I pay the mortgage (short term maybe)? the house gets put on the market and once sold any proceeds left after legal fees get divided out, personal possessions and furnishings are neither here nor there and as for child support that affects people that are not married so not really a good point in this case.
 
A serious relationship doesn't need to involve marriage.

You can have a relationship which is identical in every single way to being married, without being married.

Totally agree. But usually not with someone who has a fundamentally different outlook to marriage as you do.

This works both ways, you cant get together with someone who is doesn't want marriage and then complain when things go south because you want to get married.

Again, totally agree. But if a person is sending mixed signals over the subject the waters definitely become more cloudy :)

The OP is also investing time and effort, along with his £70k...

Yes he is. By choice. Nobody forced him.

I don't see where he's using it as a bargaining chip?

Because he is saying the only reason he is not getting married is because he does not want to lose 50% of the house if it does not work out. His entire argument is based on the house. If he didnt have that house, or that money to worry about he has clearly said he would marry her.

Ergo he places higher importance on his house/money than he does on her.

He's protecting his assets, which IMO is perfectly reasonable.

Yup, I agree. But it does not work that way in a relationship with two people with fundamentally different goals. Something has to give.

In the case of marriage, yes it is an either/or equation. Marriage is binary, you're either married or not married, there isn't a third option in the middle (unless you want to count some of the "alternatives" e.g. a handfasting? :p)

I was talking in general relationship terms. Generally they are not either/or equations. They have middle ground and compromise. Yes, of course marriage is either/or and often a persons outlook on marriage is the same. This goes back to what I said about having fundamentally different life goals. Marriage, kids, emigration etc etc, are usually the subjects where a person will not compromise.

It does not mean people on either side of that fence cannot be happy - they just have to find happyness with the right person. The OP seems to be with the wrong person (based on the limited information we have).

I really don't see the fuss about marriage, it doesn't achieve anything...

It is not for everyone, that is true.
 
Why would the ex keep the house and I pay the mortgage (short term maybe)?

Because if you have kids and the ex isn't working, the alternative is to lose the house and your kids end up homeless... and yes, short term... depending how long it takes to sell the house, which could be 6+ months.


as for child support that affects people that are not married so not really a good point in this case.

Not on it's own, however when it's on top of everything else, it doesn't really help...
 
Because if you have kids and the ex isn't working, the alternative is to lose the house and your kids end up homeless... and yes, short term... depending how long it takes to sell the house, which could be 6+ months.

Even if you were renting a place with your wife, you would still need to move out and find another place to live so the cost of divorce isnt really the issue here.
The point i am trying to make is: if your sole reason for not wanting to get married is to protect your personal wealth then you are a fool.
 
sometimes people are ****... but what can you do?

You don't expect loyalty or integrity from strangers - you don't know them, they don't know you, there are no ties other than basic decency which is all too lacking these days, so nothing lost and nothing gained.
However, we generally expect these values of loyalty and integrity to count with those we are close to, be they significant others or friends too. Sadly no matter how good a judge of character you are now, it counts for relatively little when your happiness or security (be it emotional or financial) is, to a greater or lesser extent, in the hands of another.

When push comes to shove, quite simply - people change and to pretend otherwise is opening yourself to all that another is prepared to do to you, deliberately or by omission.

Should this mean you never trust anyone again? Of course not.
But you do become more aware of how far people can and often do go when their interest changes. Naturally this alters your view somewhat.

Some people never experience the darker side to people like this; more power to them, they are lucky. It is a shame that there's not more like them in the world. It would be an indication of people treating each other better and with more respect.

I cannot blame the OP for thinking like he does - invariably people are diminished by the ill treatment they receive from others in the past. This does not make the OP a bad person, as some of you seem to suggest.
Many people successfully move on from failed relationships and all that this entails, but they will never forget what their trust cost them (I say 'cost' with a dual meaning; emotional and/or financial).

Your personal integrity and loyalty are all well and good until someone else decides they are no longer of any value to them.
It sounds like the OP learned a hard lesson in this in his previous marriage.
Anyone sympathetic to that should understand and not throw their toys out of the pram. Everyone has been banging on about trust this and trust that and trust issues, but few have included understanding in their judgement of the OP's relationship - part of a relationship which is just as important as trust. Perhaps this is something his other half needs to look at, instead of running back to her mother when she doesn't get what she wants.

Best of luck to you OP, whatever you decide.
 
Not everyone brings up kids well either, it takes a lot of hard work, dedication and sacrifice, and unlike building a company, if it gets too much for you, you can't just turn round and decide you've had enough.

You can, and that's a big problem nowadays with people rushing to have kids, finding out it's very hard work (as you've eluded to) and then bailing out.
 
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That is true you should support your spouse if she/he is raising the child, however recently the actor Matt Le Blanc from friends was ordered to pay 15k a month in child support I do not know any child that costs 15k a month to raise that is just ludicrous. Edit: He also has a prenup, he was married to this woman for only 4 years too.

That's hardly the norm though is it?

Human beings are not naturally monogamous. If we were people wouldn't be cheating all the time and the temptation to cheat wouldn't be constant imo. Relationships would just work if that was the case.

Indeed not, I was just pointing out that lifetime mating (and thus monogamy) exists in nature and is therefore more natural than business that does not.
 
Even if you were renting a place with your wife, you would still need to move out and find another place to live so the cost of divorce isnt really the issue here.

However there would be no obligation to continue paying for it, and you wouldn't be at risk of losing a huge amount of money if you didn't

The point i am trying to make is: if your sole reason for not wanting to get married is to protect your personal wealth then you are a fool.

Why?

It's a logical, and justifiable reason against getting married, which has tangible and measurable benefits.

Can you provide a logical, and justifiable reason for getting married, which has tangible and measurable benefits?
 
However there would be no obligation to continue paying for it, and you wouldn't be at risk of losing a huge amount of money if you didn't



Why?

It's a logical, and justifiable reason against getting married, which has tangible and measurable benefits.

Can you provide a logical, and justifiable reason for getting married, which has tangible and measurable benefits?


This is Earth not Vulcan, logic has nothing to do with it, if we was to be logical about everything the world would be a sad place. Im not discussing this any further as i wont change my mind just as others wont change theirs.
 
That's your problem right there trying to put logic into an equation where woman are involved.
I am pro wedding if we done everything by logic the world would be boring.
 
You told her you don't want marriage, bought a house together with your money, which she is now legally entitled to half of, irrespective of your input and hers....good move, oh no, wait

FYI you want a deed of trust, not a prenup

Is the mortgage in joint names? If so then it makes no difference who put what in, she owns half off it.

Marriage means nothing unless you had contracts drawn up when you bought the house.

She will be entitled to a proportion whether you are married or not.

I had a mate who got married and his Mrs was like you. She ears 4 times what he does and had been burnt. She had the house in her name only, contracts drawn up and he paid rent as a tenant. They got married and had 2 kids and now she realizes he is not going to screw her.

Do you trust her? Life is too short to tarnish everyone with the same stick

What?

Absolute bull.

Even if the mortgage is in joint names she isn't entitled to anything unless the other side is on the deeds. A mortgage is a loan not entitlement to a property.

Doesn't matter how long you live with someone you don't get ANY entitlement to anything other than what YOU own.

Thats why you get married. Its a contract. Without that contract nothing is shared
 
This is Earth not Vulcan, logic has nothing to do with it, if we was to be logical about everything the world would be a sad place. Im not discussing this any further as i wont change my mind just as others wont change theirs.

That's your problem right there trying to put logic into an equation where woman are involved.
I am pro wedding if we done everything by logic the world would be boring.

I'm not suggesting we should be logical about everything, however basing extremely serious decisions purely on emotion, without considering and allowing for the potential implications is in my opinion verging on insanity, and is exactly why the same people always seem to end up in bad situations, and then wonder "why is it always me?"
 
What?

Absolute bull.

Even if the mortgage is in joint names she isn't entitled to anything unless the other side is on the deeds. A mortgage is a loan not entitlement to a property.

Doesn't matter how long you live with someone you don't get ANY entitlement to anything other than what YOU own.

Thats why you get married. Its a contract. Without that contract nothing is shared

I thought there was a court case in the last few years where some woman got half of her partners house because she had been paying towards the mortage indirectly because they split all the bills
 
I thought there was a court case in the last few years where some woman got half of her partners house because she had been paying towards the mortage indirectly because they split all the bills

Then that would be case law. And Everybody would have heard about it.
Plus then there would be no reason to get married
 
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