10GB vram enough for the 3080? Discuss..

[chrcoluk]

I've mentioned several times in this thread that there are a few different behaviours that may be seen when running short of video memory. The behaviour you see depends on the game in question and other factors. FPS should be monitored, image quality, and frame times of 0.1% and 1% lows.

I think those things are known by anyone with a modicum of intelligence. Obviously, that does not apply to everyone.

I set my texture pool in ff7 remake to 1 gig on the debug console and was greeted with minecraft textures.

 

[gpuerrilla]

I've mentioned several times in this thread that there are a few different behaviours that may be seen when running short of video memory. The behaviour you see depends on the game in question and other factors. FPS should be monitored, image quality, and frame times of 0.1% and 1% lows.

I think those things are known by anyone with a modicum of intelligence. Obviously, that does not apply to everyone.

Fingers in ears time again! Can't really argue now they have specifically made a 3080 12Gb edition. Think that cements the real way to remove the issue (2Gb headroom is needed) especially when you get to the cohort of 4k gaming and high textures.

 

[chrcoluk]

I don’t know about FF7 as I tried the game both on my 10GB 3080 desktop and 16GB 3080 laptop and stuttering is much worse on the 16GB laptop GPU despite GPU usage not being maxed out.

I tried to find a pattern by trying to get a spreadsheet setup for those with and without issues but hardly anyone was interested.

Essentially there is two things going on.

Some systems can stream in the textures, shaders etc. with no stutter, I guess your desktop is one of those systems.
Also even if you have a 16 gig card, the game is coded to be optimised for lower VRAM cards, you have to manually set on the debug mod addon to make it utilise more (only an option if you have the VRAM there to use).

On my system I have to massively throttle the texture streaming to an extremely low level I am kind of emulating slow spindle storage for the loading speed if that makes sense, it actually does increase the loading time on the loading screens as the throttle affects that as well, and even then it changes the stutters to micro stutters instead of removing them. I am not alone, I got the tunables from nexusmods where a bunch of people have the same problem. DF of course had the same issue in their review although not quite as severe. The good news is the main guy on nexusmods has had a breakthrough and is reworking how the engine works. https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy7remake/mods/139?tab=posts&BH=2

What cpu is in your laptop vs the desktop?

 

[Nexus18]

A few guys on techpowerup trying to claim the more VRAM is nonsense, but I am seeing first hand in ff7 remake that it isnt, dev's have been hacking games to make it work by constantly flushing and reloading textures due to lack of VRAM, and its made worse in ff7 remake as that is dumping non graphical data in VRAM an inheritance from the PS5 code. That game needs 3 gig of VRAM just to get to the title menu.

I also think it was mentioned on here that reviews needs to also check quality not just fps as low VRAM can lead to lower quality textures been streamed in.

Given that FF 7 for pc is being reported as the worst port of all time for pc, I wouldn't be putting that down to "limited vram" as being the problem.....

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/final-fantasy-7-remakes-pc-port-is-a-major-disappointment/

https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-remake-pc-port

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...fantasy-7-remake-intergrade-pc-barebones-port

However, yes, game developers and/or amd + nvidia do implement different ways to utilize vram differently. IIRC, it is computerbase who have found nvidia use less vram compared to amd.

EDIT:

Most reviews do cover image quality etc. too now regarding texture loading/pop in i.e. digital foundry mentioned that with deathloop, textures pop in more with lesser vram cards, likewise with fc 6 when the game had an issue with textures loading/rendering on all platforms (fixed in the patch a couple months back though)

Fingers in ears time again! Can't really argue now they have specifically made a 3080 12Gb edition. Think that cements the real way to remove the issue (2Gb headroom is needed) especially when you get to the cohort of 4k gaming and high textures.

Has there been any proof to show that the extra 2GB vram is actually benefitting the 3080 12GB? (outside of the "overall" specs actually being better than the 10GB version.....) If so please post some links




So has anyone got any new games with supposed vram issues on 10GB 3080 for me to debunk again?

 

[chrcoluk]

Given that FF 7 for pc is being reported as the worst port of all time for pc, I wouldn't be putting that down to "limited vram" as being the problem.....

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/final-fantasy-7-remakes-pc-port-is-a-major-disappointment/

https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-remake-pc-port

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...fantasy-7-remake-intergrade-pc-barebones-port

However, yes, game developers and/or amd + nvidia do implement different ways to utilize vram differently. IIRC, it is computerbase who have found nvidia use less vram compared to amd.



Has there been any proof to show that the extra 2GB vram is actually benefitting the 3080 10GB? (outside of the "overall" specs actually being better than the 10GB version.....) If so please post some links




So has anyone got any new games with supposed vram issues for me to debunk again?

Not going to watch a bunch of videos, but instead listen to developers and analyse whats going in the game with the debug data. Yes the stuttering is caused by aggressive flushing of textures, the game has very high VRAM usage.

The problem with the arguments people are making are twofold. They are based on tech media reviews.

First problem is these reviewers tend to review the same sample of games as each other, they tend to be well optimised titles, I have even seen reviewers state they deliberately avoid badly optimised games in their review benches, this makes no sense to me as you are painting a false picture of reality. We dont all just play the big blockbuster well optimised PC shooters, some of us play games from developers who release bad port after bad port.

Second problem is they are not measuring image quality, in addition DF have now tweeted there is a problem with the review industry using tools which fail to pick up certain stutters.

The amount of times I have seen reviewers fail to pick up obvious problems in games (and hardware) is unreal.

So yes please read all the documentation of whats going on instead of just posting a few media videos.

FF7 Remake is not a one off, more similar ports will follow.

 

[LtMatt]

Not going to watch a bunch of videos, but instead listen to developers and analyse whats going in the game with the debug data. Yes the stuttering is caused by aggressive flushing of textures, the game has very high VRAM usage.

The problem with the arguments people are making are twofold. They are based on tech media reviews.

First problem is these reviewers tend to review the same sample of games as each other, they tend to be well optimised titles, I have even seen reviewers state they deliberately avoid badly optimised games in their review benches, this makes no sense to me as you are painting a false picture of reality. We dont all just play the big blockbuster well optimised PC shooters, some of us play games from developers who release bad port after bad port.

Second problem is they are not measuring image quality, in addition DF have now tweeted there is a problem with the review industry using tools which fail to pick up certain stutters.

The amount of times I have seen reviewers fail to pick up obvious problems in games (and hardware) is unreal.

So yes please read all the documentation of whats going on instead of just posting a few media videos.

FF7 Remake is not a one off, more similar ports will follow.

Get outta here with that logical rationale!

 

[pete910]

Get outta here with that logical rationale!

Whilst reading what chrcoluk wrote I wondered if I was actually on the right forum

 

[Mesai]

Given that FF 7 for pc is being reported as the worst port of all time for pc, I wouldn't be putting that down to "limited vram" as being the problem.....

This is a trend for VRAM discussions. "Look at this unfinished game; it hogs resources, has a myriad of bugs and looks sub-par, therefore the hardware is the problem".

Not saying the issue doesn't exist although I can't say I've ever had to deal with it at 1440p.

 

[Mesai]

First problem is these reviewers tend to review the same sample of games as each other, they tend to be well optimised titles, I have even seen reviewers state they deliberately avoid badly optimised games in their review benches, this makes no sense to me as you are painting a false picture of reality. We dont all just play the big blockbuster well optimised PC shooters, some of us play games from developers who release bad port after bad port.

It makes sense that they would test popular game across various genres as that'll satisfy the majority of their audience. I agree that these tests are relatively basic and generally just paint a high-level picture.

There are plenty other reviewers who do in-depth game testing, which is what I usually wait for before buying anything as most games are released unfinished these days.

 

[Nexus18]

Not going to watch a bunch of videos, but instead listen to developers and analyse whats going in the game with the debug data. Yes the stuttering is caused by aggressive flushing of textures, the game has very high VRAM usage.

The problem with the arguments people are making are twofold. They are based on tech media reviews.

First problem is these reviewers tend to review the same sample of games as each other, they tend to be well optimised titles, I have even seen reviewers state they deliberately avoid badly optimised games in their review benches, this makes no sense to me as you are painting a false picture of reality. We dont all just play the big blockbuster well optimised PC shooters, some of us play games from developers who release bad port after bad port.

Second problem is they are not measuring image quality, in addition DF have now tweeted there is a problem with the review industry using tools which fail to pick up certain stutters.

The amount of times I have seen reviewers fail to pick up obvious problems in games (and hardware) is unreal.

So yes please read all the documentation of whats going on instead of just posting a through media videos.

I got no interest in the game tbf but generally when you have the "vast" majority of tech reviewers and end users reporting severe issues with the game and pointing out why it is a bad port for pc... it's hard to argue against that.... And if people are going as far to report it as the worst port for pc in a long time, I think that kind of shows you the problem.... Of course, having better hardware/more vram etc. will help brute force their way through any problems but should we really have to put up with that mindset when it's clear that the developers need to adjust/fix the issues on their end and not have end users trawling through config files etc.? i.e. perfect example being fc 6 and it's texture loading/rendering issues, some people were adamant it was purely just because of "limited vram" and nothing else despite there being a 70+ page thread on ubi forums about the issues.... DF etc. even noted that the issues were happening on consoles.... developers looked into it, found that it was a "bug", fast forward a couple of months, said "issue" was fixed.

If a game is a bad port that has well regarded issues by end users, why support it by buying it and more importantly, why play it when you are having issues because of it being a bad port? Mind boggling why people support those kind of bad pc ports.... and then some wonder why games are released in an unfinished state for pc.....

This is a trend for VRAM discussions. "Look at this unfinished game; it hogs resources, has a myriad of bugs and looks sub-par, therefore the hardware is the problem".

Not saying the issue doesn't exist although I can't say I've ever had to deal with it at 1440p.

Exactly!

 

[MagicBoy]

No, it isn't enough. It is actually so bad for Nvidia, that it made its partners remove the 10 GB advertising on the cards' boxes
It is now hidden on the side walls of the boxes.

Instead, it markets "4-year warranty". 4 years my backside

Yay more 4K8KWTF necrothread nonsense.

 

[TNA]

Yay more 4K8KWTF necrothread nonsense.

Indeed

 

[humbug]

Icarus.

1440P with DLSS on quality because with good image quality settings it barely runs at all with out it..... the game keeps trying for 8100 MB VRam, stutter and go down to 7000MB, back up to 8100MB stutter and back down to 7000MB, rinse and repeat...

RTX 2070 Super, 15 Months old.

 

[TNA]

This is a trend for VRAM discussions. "Look at this unfinished game; it hogs resources, has a myriad of bugs and looks sub-par, therefore the hardware is the problem".

Not saying the issue doesn't exist although I can't say I've ever had to deal with it at 1440p.

It is a mixture of agenda and generally what each individual considers "enough".

As an example some will see not having a decent headroom to run every single game available now and have enough for games coming out in a few years as not enough.

My personal view point has not changed. I was fine with the 10gb on the 3080 as it played every game at the time just fine and since then we have barely a handful of games that need more and from those any given individual may want to play what, one? Big deal... When you look at the alternative which is had nvidia tried to put more vram at the time it would have made msrp higher.

The vram issue imo is only an issue for people who intend to keep the card for a very long time and those that are inflexible and find the thought of tweaking settings unimaginable. For those you can buy a 16gb or 24gb card though, but even with those there will be situations where you need to tweak settings. Like with an AMD card you will need to tweak RT settings for example.

I am on a 8gb card now, not an issue for me as it plays 99% or more of my steam library just fine without vram issues. Next gen cards are not far away anyway so when I am on one of those no doubt it will have 16gb or more. What will I have missed out on in the mean time? Far Cry 6 or god forbid should I say Godfall?

Horses for courses

 

[hornetstinger]

Seen quite a few back and forth talk online about 10GB cutting it a bit short, others saying it's fine. Usage at 1440p is less than 4K but there is still a few games where usage goes just above 10GB.

So do we think the rumours of extra cards with 20GB will be there to pre-order with the other cards? Or are they waiting to see what AMD does?

1 gigabyte of RAM is sufficent.

 

[Mesai]

RTX 2070 Super, 15 Months old.

From when you bought it, I assume? The card was released long before that, so it's more like 30 months old.

The vram issue imo is only an issue for people who intend to keep the card for a very long time and those that are inflexible and find the thought of tweaking settings unimaginable. For those you can buy a 16gb or 24gb card though, but even with those there will be situations where you need to tweak settings. Like with an AMD card you will need to tweak RT settings for example.

Yea, and it's mostly an issue for those trying to push the cards at 4K or for VR.

Games are going to get more demanding, especially with the new engines, so people playing at higher resolutions will need to scale back setting to find playable FPS, which funnily enough will reduce VRAM demand.

 

[Nexus18]

Icarus.

1440P with DLSS on quality because with good image quality settings it barely runs at all with out it..... the game keeps trying for 8100 MB VRam, stutter and go down to 7000MB, back up to 8100MB stutter and back down to 7000MB, rinse and repeat...

RTX 2070 Super, 15 Months old.

Icarus is pretty hard on the vram, I haven't played it in a few weeks but iirc, there is a setting for shader/texture loading, default should be 4GB, so make sure you haven't set it to 12GB (the max iirc) and also, for texture settings, they have info. describing which setting to use, iirc, for 8GB, they recommend the high texture preset so again make sure you haven't got it set to ultra.

RTX GI is incredibly demanding in that game too since it is unlimited bounces. Sadly the game isn't the most optimised either i.e. dx 11 is more stable and runs better than dx 12.

It is a mixture of agenda and generally what each individual considers "enough".

As an example some will see not having a decent headroom to run every single game available now and have enough for games coming out in a few years as not enough.

My personal view point has not changed. I was fine with the 10gb on the 3080 as it played every game at the time just fine and since then we have barely a handful of games that need more and from those any given individual may want to play what, one? Big deal... When you look at the alternative which is had nvidia tried to put more vram at the time it would have made msrp higher.

The vram issue imo is only an issue for people who intend to keep the card for a very long time and those that are inflexible and find the thought of tweaking settings unimaginable. For those you can buy a 16gb or 24gb card though, but even with those there will be situations where you need to tweak settings. Like with an AMD card you will need to tweak RT settings for example.

I am on a 8gb card now, not an issue for me as it plays 99% or more of my steam library just fine without vram issues. Next gen cards are not far away anyway so when I am on one of those no doubt it will have 16gb or more. What will I have missed out on in the mean time? Far Cry 6 or god forbid should I say Godfall?

Horses for courses

FC 6, godfall????? They were debunked my dear boi

But agree, after all this time and all the threads we have had, it still seems that the only people who making a big deal out of it are the amd fans and/or people who wanted a 3080 but couldn't get one so had to pony up for a 3090....

It is still a complete non-issue imo, every card regardless of vram (within reason) are having to use FSR/DLSS or/and reduce settings if you want acceptable frame rates for a 4k/PC 100+fps/hz experience, especially amd cards in ray tracing titles (there are far more titles with RT affecting amd than there are games/vram usage scenarios affecting the 3080 10GB) but that doesn't seem to be as big of a deal...

When/if direct storage arrives for pc games, it will be an interesting one with regards to vram usage and how it is utilised as in theory, it is suppose to reduce vram usage and the way games make use of vram is very different too.

Games are going to get more demanding, especially with the new engines, so people playing at higher resolutions will need to scale back setting to find playable FPS, which funnily enough will reduce VRAM demand.

Ding ding, winner winner chicken dinner!

 

[z10m]

I tried to find a pattern by trying to get a spreadsheet setup for those with and without issues but hardly anyone was interested.

Essentially there is two things going on.

Some systems can stream in the textures, shaders etc. with no stutter, I guess your desktop is one of those systems.
Also even if you have a 16 gig card, the game is coded to be optimised for lower VRAM cards, you have to manually set on the debug mod addon to make it utilise more (only an option if you have the VRAM there to use).

On my system I have to massively throttle the texture streaming to an extremely low level I am kind of emulating slow spindle storage for the loading speed if that makes sense, it actually does increase the loading time on the loading screens as the throttle affects that as well, and even then it changes the stutters to micro stutters instead of removing them. I am not alone, I got the tunables from nexusmods where a bunch of people have the same problem. DF of course had the same issue in their review although not quite as severe. The good news is the main guy on nexusmods has had a breakthrough and is reworking how the engine works. https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy7remake/mods/139?tab=posts&BH=2

What cpu is in your laptop vs the desktop?

You might be on to something there as from what I remember the game used less than 8GB of vram on my laptop as if there was some kind of limit imposed whereas on my desktop it used almost 10GB.
I still get stuttering on my desktop just not as bad.
You can find specs of ny desktop and laptop in my sig.

 

[Skynet5]

So what if the next game released needs 12.5gb of ram for its hd texture pack?

Is 12 no longer enough?

This is terrible, when will it end?

 

[Sargatanas2511]

I have said since the start it was enough at the time but it isn't looking good moving forward. I don't know about you guys but i 100% don't buy a £700+ (more like £1400) graphics card to turn details down after 18 months.

It always smelled of planned obsolesence for me.