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14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

Silent_Scone said:
Depends on the workload. Gaming, no. High current all core workloads, yes some.

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watching Hardware unboxed he tried Extreme/Performance Profiles for gaming and was a drop not a big drop still smack in the face isnt it people buying from watching day 1 reviews at benchmarks and after year here is what you should use

are these even confirmed to be safe long term now ? doesnt seem to be anything official from intel yet ?
 
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uscool said:
watching Hardware unboxed he tried Extreme/Performance Profiles for gaming and was a drop not a big drop still smack in the face isnt it people buying from watching day 1 reviews at benchmarks and after year here is what you should use

are these even confirmed to be safe long term now ? doesnt seem to be anything official from intel yet ?
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Unconfirmed. The revised guidelines provided to vendors is about as official as it gets, though.
 
uscool said:
are these even confirmed to be safe long term now ? doesnt seem to be anything official from intel yet ?
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Judging by all the reports I've seen, by data centres and developers - these help little to none and even Intel admits it doesn't fix the root cause (neither does the bug fixed microcode). It's just a bandaid at best, not the cure. Also, if the CPU is already affected, only RMA can fix it, apparently.
 
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Silent_Scone said:
You could expect almost every CPU to be impacted then, if that's the working theory.
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Not sure what you are saying there - I'm not saying any voltage over 12th gen will degrade them fast though saying that was talking last night to someone who works in IT for an advertising agency with a lot of systems used for 3D modelling and video rendering and they reckon based on what they've seen for 24x7 full loaded anything over 1.4V, ~300A, ~280 watt is degrading chips, 1.45 for mixed use or 1.5 for gaming, but they are only seeing like 1-2 systems in 30 impacted (which is still pretty high compared to Intel traditionally) and most of those aren't right out the box rather than degrading later.

Dave2150 said:
12P core on LGA1700? Sounds weird. If on Intel 7 process, will be too hot and power hungry to be a option anyway.
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Sounds like they won't have E cores on the 12P part so will have a bit of room to play with to improve thermals/power.
 
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Rroff said:
Not sure what you are saying there - I'm not saying any voltage over 12th gen will degrade them fast though saying that was talking last night to someone who works in IT for an advertising agency with a lot of systems used for 3D modelling and video rendering and they reckon based on what they've seen for 24x7 full loaded anything over 1.4V, ~300A, ~280 watt is degrading chips, 1.45 for mixed use or 1.5 for gaming, but they are only seeing like 1-2 systems in 30 impacted and most of those aren't right out the box rather than degrading later.



Sounds like they won't have E cores on the 12P part so will have a bit of room to play with to improve thermals/power.
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We're still working with your not liking over 1.45v specious. I've lost count of the cases I've seen on the forums, but most of them haven't been subjecting them with more than 200w, and mostly game.

pete910 said:
Just, Lol, It's still an instruction set!
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it is a 64-bit extension of the x86 instruction set architecture, so you're more right than wrong
 
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Silent_Scone said:
I've lost count of the cases I've seen on the forums, but most of them haven't been subjecting them with more than 200w, and mostly game.
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Until more information comes to light, what I've seen so far seems to indicate there are two issues, though both related, in that some CPUs aren't stable with stock settings out the box and some seem to be degrading over time. Both possibly down to Intel being too optimistic with their profiling and binning. 12th gen voltages (as in what products are actually running) are inline with comparable products and nodes by other vendors, 13th and 14th gen are not and the electrical specifications for the Intel 7 node seems a little unlikely in comparison.

Or it could be a completely different issue as there just isn't enough reliable information yet.
 
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Rroff said:
Until more information comes to light, what I've seen so far seems to indicate there are two issues, though both related, in that some CPUs aren't stable with stock settings out the box and some seem to be degrading over time. Both possibly down to Intel being too optimistic with their profiling and binning.
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The motherboard default AC Loadline value can result in too much vdroop when the CPU is sending the VID request based on the factory fused V/F curve to the voltage controller, ergo the VID request results in the voltage the CPU receives being insufficient for a given workload. My leading theory has always been that the voltage fused is often too optimistic. Using the CPU may expose this more over time. Remember, everything degrades - we use that term quite loosely, it might simply not take much to expose it and has nothing to do with the voltage being too high.

Remember the leaked document from Igor's article mentioned the voltage floor had raised in some cases.
 
Silent_Scone said:
The motherboard default AC Loadline value can result in too much vdroop when the CPU is sending the VID request based on the factory fused V/F curve to the voltage controller, ergo the VID request results in the voltage the CPU receives being insufficient for a given workload. My leading theory has always been that the voltage fused is often too optimistic. Using the CPU may expose this more over time. Remember, everything degrades - we use that term quite loosely, it might simply not take much to expose it and has nothing to do with the voltage being too high.

Remember the leaked document from Igor's article mentioned the voltage floor had raised in some cases.
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That goes very much in line with my findings from testing quite of few of these CPUs, on the examples I've had you can work around it but it may be easier to get around an RMA.
 
Silent_Scone said:
Remember, everything degrades - we use that term quite loosely, it might simply not take much to expose it and has nothing to do with the voltage being too high.
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Not quite sure what you mean by that, obviously all semiconductors degrade over time, just with a reasonable life expectancy and primarily it is driven by electromigration which is a current based mechanism but voltage (and related thermals) has an effect.
 
My first two cpus really sucked power and as a result temps went over 100c constantly throttling even with tweaking. Third one was stable at stock but still required fiddling with to get temps down. Not sure if the Arctic freezer 420mm is crap though as I've read conflicting reports on it a while back.
 
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