Be nice if it was a drop in cpu for Z690/Z790.
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14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"
- Thread starter Dave2150
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Sep 2018
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- 2,515
It’s not gonna happen so no reason to set false expectations and then over react….
Nah it was never an expectation, this is intel we're talking about here
...
True, in laptop space it could be excellent thing, but in desktop i don't need it, give im 10-12 P cores and i'm happy. Once 3d stacking cores comes Intel will probably kill big/little because with 3d stacking cores they won't have problems with putting more than 8 P cores, big/little design is compromise, partial solution to offer more cores, not perfect/better solution.
Associate
Yes true. Would you also say Zen 4 is just an optimization/refresh of Zen 3 but with a new socket and chipset and DDR5? Or is that a bigger change?
Cause also Raptor Lake is also coming with a new chipset as well though it is a drop in upgrade on existing.
I know almost all reports say that Zen 4 will not have DDR4, but AMD could put ir on AM4 if they wanted as it exists in their lab.
AMD Testing Next-Gen 5nm Zen 4 CPUs on AM4 B550/X570 Boards, Release Uncertain [Report] | Hardware Times
AMD is reportedly testing AM4 variants of Zen 4 internally. This rumor has been making rounds on the web for a while now. The same has been confirmed by @Greymon55, according to whom these chips do exist but whether or not they’re released remains to be seen. AMD has already stated that it’ll...
www.google.com
It's gonna bring AMD to new platform but fact it exists in lab on AM4 it's likely a refresh and optimization of Zen 3.
So end of this year it will be refresh competition against refresh??
Do you think real fun and evolution begins with Meteor Lake and Zen 5?
Or do you see any ground breaking excitement for either Raptor Lake or Zen 4 other than Zen 4 being able to use and actually requiring DDR5 on new chipset?
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Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Sep 2018
- Posts
- 2,515
This + new node.
If there are no delays for either roadmap next few years will be nonstop changes so just buy when you need/want or you’ll always be waiting.
AMD chips are a lot more ram speed sensitive though for the current generation compared to Intels so maybe zen4 is much slower with ddr4 compared to dd5 and not worth them doing a ddr4 board
Soldato
By the time I need to update AL I will want a new system.
Associate
That's true although I also know AMD chips really benefit from low latency RAM. Thing is DDR5 now has much higher latency than DDR4 but much more speed so more bandwidth.
Plus with Ryzen in contrast to Intel there is a much bigger performance penalty of CPU and whole system if of RAM Is not run 1:1 where as Intel not as big of deal.
Hopefully infinity fabric on Zen 4 can run at least 2400MHz or else it's gonna get hit with even slowest 4800MHz DDR5.
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Gloflo node on previous designs were little bottleneck, that's why IF and RAM OC capabilities were low, this time they use full TSMC nodes, and AMD said many times that Zen 4 will have excellent RAM OC capabilities which isn't surprise considering they use TSMC node, and they are working much more and have better relationship with RAM vendors than in the past. What i'm curious is how good will be Intel first chiplet design, it isn't easy to create it, and it takes many years to master it and polish, even with all money and R&D budget in the world, and Intel is having trouble in server, hedt and GPU segment, they use much of budget to make sure these products arrives as soon as it can get, but still delays and problems.
+ 8 cores, increased L2, L3 cache, core architecture changes on 'E' core, new power features, improved IMC, increased clock speed, sure, typical refresh just like intel did between i7 4770k - 4790k (Devil's Caynon) right?
(I'm being sarcastic for those unaware)Of course we have AMD to thank for getting Intel into gear
+ 8 cores, increased L2, L3 cache, core architecture changes on 'E' core, new power features, improved IMC, increased clock speed, sure, typical refresh just like intel did between i7 4770k - 4790k (Devil's Caynon) right?
Of course we have AMD to thank for getting Intel into gear
Raptor lake looks like it's an architecture refresh with minimal change there but the actual CPU feature is different enough, as you mentioned: lower voltages, more cores, more cache and higher clocks
Obviously meteor lake will be a bigger change, it has 3D stacking and foveros chiplets, potential for a big upgrade on performance of iGPU onboard and likely again more cores as well as rumoured architecture changes like completely different architecture on E cores
Meteor Lake mobile spec leak
- Triple-Hybrid CPU Architecture (P/E/LP-E Cores)
- Brand New Redwood Cove (P-Cores)
- Brand New Crestmont (E-Cores)
- Up To 14 Cores (6+8) For H/P Series & Up To 12 Cores (4+8) For U Series CPUs
- Intel 4 Process Node For CPU, TSMC 3nm For tGPU
- Intel Battlemage 'Xe-LPG' GPU With Up To 128 EUs
- Up To LPDDR5X-7467 & DDR5-5200 Support
- Up To 96 GB DDR5 & 64 GB LPDDR5X Capacities
- Intel VPU For AI Inferencing With Atom Cores
- x8 Gen 5 Lanes For Discrete GPU (Only H-Series)
- Triple x4 M.2 Gen 4 SSD Support
- Four Thunderbolt 4 Ports
Intel's Meteor Lake Mobile Detailed: Up to 14 Cores, Xe-HPG GPU, Intel 4
Intel on track to significantly advance its mobile platforms in 2023.
Urgh
Hoping the new 'P' and 'E' cores have > 10% IPC
Also be very interesting to see how Intel's 7nm shapes up ('Intel 4' as they're calling it). Intels 10nm had so many issues, which delayed it for years. So far all signs point to Intel 7nm being much quicker out of the gate - lets hope yields and frequency performance are right up there!
Intel Meteor Lake’s “Redwood Cove” and “Crestmont” architectures confirmed
Source: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-meteor-lakes-redwood-cove-and-crestmont-architectures-confirmed
Videocardz said:
Raptor lake and Z790 boards apparently to be shown off by Intel on 28'September, reviews and pre orders to go live the same day and retail stock will be available on 17 October
On 17 October only 3 models will be in stock, the 13900k, 13700k and 13600k with other models and the more budget H770/B760 boards to come in 2023
On 17 October only 3 models will be in stock, the 13900k, 13700k and 13600k with other models and the more budget H770/B760 boards to come in 2023
Soldato
I'd say so, both Zen 4 and RPL look uninspiring so far if your currently running Zen 3 or ADL.
I plan to skip both and sit on my 5800X for another year or so and see how things develop by which time DDR5 speeds should improve to hopefully around 8-10,000 so I won't have to buy twice.
Associate
Yes true. All Raptor Lake is doing is adding more e-waste cores. And the p-cores have almost no IPC improvement. Zen 4 looks like a Zen 3 refresh with improved clocks and very little IPC improvement. Golden Cove already has 15-20% better IPC at same clock speed across most workloads compared Zen 3 so Zen 4 will still be behind Golden Cove IPC with only an 8% IPC uplift.
Zen 4 though does bring exciting platform improvements like PCI-E Gen 5 on whole chipset of X670E. Though I do not care about that but those who desire Gen 5 PCI-E SSDs it could be great.
With Raptor Lake, they could be monster gaming chips with the added L3 cache and be what the 5800X3D was to 5800X when you shut off e-waste cores. They may be the best 8 core powerhouse chips around with ability to super clock 8 P cores the ring so high with 40-45MB L3 cache instead of 25-30MB on 8 P core Alder Lake counterparts. I bet that gives a big boost to gaming when shutting down e-waste cores and you have the best 8 core 16 thread productivity chip with a Core i7 13700K.
But Zen 5 is going to bring 16 cores per CCD so first chip with modern arch with more than 8 cores on one CCD/ring for no high latency penalty to cross. That could be big especially if you want more than 8 cores on same CCD/ring with no cross latency penalty.
Meteor Lake who knows what it is going to be. t looked like an 8+24, then they changed to 3 different cores types. They may keep changing it. Hopefully more than 8 super fast P cores or at least 8 P cores with a super high clocks and IPC uplift of 50% or more.