14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[humbug]

indeed it is somewhat off-topic, last point by me.....

Not particular looking for blame, either with AMD or some of the Indie developers. It is what it is. The developer of the above game has only recently acquired an AMD GPU to try and resolve some of the crashing and other texture anomalies. However there were other Indie titles I play where the performance was sub par to say the least.
In the above noted game my 1080Ti performed better, and totally stable, over that of the 6800XT.
It is what it is, annoyingly, not helped by my own limited skills and the games I play, but Nvidia just work for me. Bah, in some ways.

Good luck at the point you decide to change......

To be fair any game dev worth their salt should be running multiple configuration systems, that should be obvious. Even a small Indy Studio should at least pick up the phone to Intel, AMD, Nvidia and simply tell them they are a small start up and can't afford to buy 20 or 30 different systems, that they are ok for older ones but could do with a little help with the newest systems, i'm sure they would send them a couple of CPU's and GPU's and keep a communications line open for them.
Its their initiative to take.

 

[jigger]

Well, TBH I think right now Intel is the best choice for a *new* DDR4-based setup, while on DDR5 it's IMHO a tie between 13th gen and 7kX3D when you focus on performance/$.

If I had unlimited money I'd probably go for a 7950X3D but if I have to buy right now on a reasonable budget I'll go for 13700k and DDR4.

The 14 core i5 is a decent chip. That or the 5700X/G are probably the best bang for buck.

 

[Zarax]

I think Microsoft’s strategy is AMD and X86.

Microsoft has been decently investing on Windows on ARM, it still needs a few more generations and some serious commitment from Qualcomm and Realtek but it's real even if still niche.

 

[jigger]

Microsoft has been decently investing on Windows on ARM, it still needs a few more generations and some serious commitment from Qualcomm and Realtek but it's real even if still niche.

I think it would take someone like Microsoft to build ARM based hardware and push it. That’s a massive risk and probably not sensible model just now. Maybe if Intel get back on top and we see another long period of X86 stagnation ARM could make a push.

 

[Armageus]

I think it would take someone like Microsoft to build ARM based hardware and push it.

They've been there and done that with the Surface, Surface 2, and a whole load of unsuccessful Windows Phones

 

[jigger]

They've been there and done that with the Surface, Surface 2, and a whole load of unsuccessful Windows Phones

Can see it now, The Microsoft Deskface pro.

 

[Zarax]

Can see it now, The Microsoft Deskface pro.

Vertical integration has lots of advantages, however Microsoft cannot push it too strong or it will alienate partners and invite antitrust to decide if they are abusing their dominant position...

 

[jigger]

Vertical integration has lots of advantages, Microsoft cannot push it too strong or it will alienate partners and invite antitrust to decide if they are abusing their dominant position...

I think anyone trying to push ARM into desktop type markets would have to fully commit and prepare to take a beating from Apple while losing a fortune at the same time.

 

[Zarax]

I think anyone trying to push ARM into desktop type markets would have to fully commit and prepare to take a beating from Apple while losing a fortune at the same time.

Both Microsoft and Google are doing it and can very well afford it, probably the latter more than the former.

 

[Bencher]

There is a certain kinda irony when Intel insist these E-Cores are for power efficiency when AMD get as much if not more life out of the same KW hour battery in all tests.

But they don't insist. Intel owns graphs show that the pcores are more efficient. Ecores are efficient in performance per die space.

 

[Bencher]

@Bencher Intel are in deep ####. AMD are just slapping them about like a kipper. That's simply fact.
]

I agree they are in deep *****. They can't be profitable even when they have a vastly superior product. But I don't care about Financials, I care about performance and price. Intel has been curbstomping amd the last 2 years. Their i5 is twice as fast as amds R5 in MT performance. You have to realize, not even bulldozer was so far behind Intel's cpus back then.

 

[jigger]

Both Microsoft and Google are doing it and can very well afford it, probably the latter more than the former.

Apple have done pretty hard. It just takes commitment to get competitive. Right now ARM is Apple.

 

[jigger]

I agree they are in deep *****. They can't be profitable even when they have a vastly superior product. But I don't care about Financials, I care about performance and price. Intel has been curbstomping amd the last 2 years. Their i5 is twice as fast as amds R5 in MT performance. You have to realize, not even bulldozer was so far behind Intel's cpus back then.

Intel is pouring its cash into development right now.

50 billion upgrade in Ireland.
25 billion in Israel
68 billion in Germany
33 billion in training.

You don’t spend that kind of money if you’re not making profit.

Intel’s 2027-8 push into GPGPU and AI will be amazballz.

 

[Vulture]

Apple have done pretty hard. It just takes commitment to get competitive. Right now ARM is Apple.

Apple has an army of loyal fans, somewhat like a cult who would never switch to another brand no matter what Apple does. This fact makes it much easier for Apple to make drastic changes. On the other hand, for example, Intel doesn't have that. Many users have purchased Zen 3 and had no problem leaving Intel, so companies like Intel will have a much harder time. Why would I, for example, buy a laptop from Qualcomm that will have performance on par with low-end x86 laptops? And efficiency is not worth the performance drop, whereas AMD's Phoenix has excellent efficiency and a very powerful processor and iGPU. Let them all quietly develop the ARM architecture in the background, and when it's worthy of our attention, they can release it for sale.

 

[jigger]

Apple has an army of loyal fans, somewhat like a cult who would never switch to another brand no matter what Apple does. This fact makes it much easier for Apple to make drastic changes. On the other hand, for example, Intel doesn't have that. Many users have purchased Zen 3 and had no problem leaving Intel, so companies like Intel will have a much harder time. Why would I, for example, buy a laptop from Qualcomm that will have performance on par with low-end x86 laptops? And efficiency is not worth the performance drop, whereas AMD's Phoenix has excellent efficiency and a very powerful processor and iGPU. Let them all quietly develop the ARM architecture in the background, and when it's worthy of our attention, they can release it for sale.

It would take some serious commitment, wouldn’t it. Right now the speed of AMD’s X86 and GPU development is too much I think. Plus at some point I’d expect Intel to get its act together.

 

[Bencher]

Intel is pouring its cash into development right now.

50 billion upgrade in Ireland.
25 billion in Israel
68 billion in Germany
33 billion in training.

You don’t spend that kind of money if you’re not making profit.

Intel’s 2027-8 push into GPGPU and AI will be amazballz.

As i've said, financials don't really matter to me, im the end user. It's in the performance department that intel is curbstomping the competition right now.

 

[jigger]

As i've said, financials don't really matter to me, im the end user. It's in the performance department that intel is curbstomping the competition right now.

Yeah, but I’m talking about the real world, where AMD are leaving Intel in the dust while also managing to bank money.

What’s happening in the real world matters, unlike in Bencher land with its population of one.

 

[Vulture]

As i've said, financials don't really matter to me, im the end user. It's in the performance department that intel is curbstomping the competition right now.

That's not true, which is why they have to sell at such low margins. AMD is crushing them not only in performance but also in power consumption, and that's why Intel is struggling. If Intel had dominance in performance, they wouldn't have to sell products at almost a loss. The pattern is the same for their CPU server segment and desktop segment, as well as for GPUs. They sell all their products with minimal profit or even at a loss because AMD is beating them, and the only thing Intel can do is drastically lower prices or even give them away for free (which they did in the server segment) because they adhere to the logic of better to give for free than to completely lose a customer.

 

[jigger]

That's not true, which is why they have to sell at such low margins. AMD is crushing them not only in performance but also in power consumption, and that's why Intel is struggling. If Intel had dominance in performance, they wouldn't have to sell products at almost a loss. The pattern is the same for their CPU server segment and desktop segment, as well as for GPUs. They sell all their products with minimal profit or even at a loss because AMD is beating them, and the only thing Intel can do is drastically lower prices or even give them away for free (which they did in the server segment) because they adhere to the logic of better to give for free than to completely lose a customer.

Intel aren’t selling at a loss. Intel’s manufacturing costs are really low and the ATOM cores are dirt cheap. Intel is dropping dropping market share in high volume markets.

.

 

[Kelt]

Also the worlds most powerful super computer is an all AMD system, CPU's and GPU's

Yeh, and it still sucks at Ray Tracing!