14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[Grim5]

Intel has released a statement and it suggests that out of the box pre overclocking for Intel motherboards is over

"Intel has observed that this issue appears to be related to out-of-specification operating conditions.
Analysis of affected processors shows some parts experience shifts in operating voltages outside of Intel specified operating conditions.

• We are still investigating, but Intel has observed the majority of reports of this issue are from users with unlocked/overclock capable motherboards.
• Intel has observed 600/700 Series chipset boards often have BIOS defaults set by the motherboard manufacturer to disable thermal and power delivery safeguards designed to limit processor exposure to sustained periods of high voltage and frequency, for example:
  – Disabling Current Excursion Protection (CEP)
  – Enabling the IccMax Unlimited bit
  – Disabling Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB) operating conditions.
  – Additional settings observed which may increase the risk of system instability:
  – Disabling C-states
  – Increasing PL1 and PL2 beyond Intel recommended limits

Intel requests that system and motherboard manufacturers provide end users with a default BIOS profile that matches Intel's recommended settings.

• Intel strongly recommends customer’s default BIOS settings from the manufacturer should ensure operation within Intel’s specified recommended settings.
• In addition, Intel strongly recommends motherboard manufacturers to implement warnings for end users alerting them when there is any unlocked or overclocking feature usage.

 

[LtMatt]

Intel has released a statement and it suggests that out of the box pre overclocking for Intel motherboards is over

"Intel has observed that this issue appears to be related to out-of-specification operating conditions.
Analysis of affected processors shows some parts experience shifts in operating voltages outside of Intel specified operating conditions.

• We are still investigating, but Intel has observed the majority of reports of this issue are from users with unlocked/overclock capable motherboards.
• Intel has observed 600/700 Series chipset boards often have BIOS defaults set by the motherboard manufacturer to disable thermal and power delivery safeguards designed to limit processor exposure to sustained periods of high voltage and frequency, for example:
  – Disabling Current Excursion Protection (CEP)
  – Enabling the IccMax Unlimited bit
  – Disabling Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB) operating conditions.
  – Additional settings observed which may increase the risk of system instability:
  – Disabling C-states
  – Increasing PL1 and PL2 beyond Intel recommended limits

Intel requests that system and motherboard manufacturers provide end users with a default BIOS profile that matches Intel's recommended settings.

• Intel strongly recommends customer’s default BIOS settings from the manufacturer should ensure operation within Intel’s specified recommended settings.
• In addition, Intel strongly recommends motherboard manufacturers to implement warnings for end users alerting them when there is any unlocked or overclocking feature usage.

Alright, time to redo launch reviewers at the new settings.

 

[RSR]

The key word in that is requests and not requires in legal speak.

Enforcing stock PL won’t make much of a difference in games as it doesn’t pull 9000w watts as someone has quoted. I am sure the people requesting re tests have there own benches to test this out on and post the results.

 

[Rroff]

Alright, time to redo launch reviewers at the new settings.

I dunno how Intel stock their settings are but TPU reviewed all the 14th gen with "stock" and "all power limits removed" variations but their "stock" settings might include MCE on as their stock setting is averaging 374 watt vs 450 with no power limits on the 14900KS averages.

 

[Jay-G25]

I dunno how Intel stock their settings are but TPU reviewed all the 14th gen with "stock" and "all power limits removed" variations but their "stock" settings might include MCE on as their stock setting is averaging 374 watt vs 450 with no power limits on the 14900KS averages.

would be interesting to know what Bios version they are using as there is a significant uplift in voltage on a recent bios update ... my results here : https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/14th-gen-raptor-lake-refresh.18951415/post-37089884

 

[pete910]

Intel has released a statement and it suggests that out of the box pre overclocking for Intel motherboards is over

"Intel has observed that this issue appears to be related to out-of-specification operating conditions.
Analysis of affected processors shows some parts experience shifts in operating voltages outside of Intel specified operating conditions.

• We are still investigating, but Intel has observed the majority of reports of this issue are from users with unlocked/overclock capable motherboards.
• Intel has observed 600/700 Series chipset boards often have BIOS defaults set by the motherboard manufacturer to disable thermal and power delivery safeguards designed to limit processor exposure to sustained periods of high voltage and frequency, for example:
  – Disabling Current Excursion Protection (CEP)
  – Enabling the IccMax Unlimited bit
  – Disabling Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB) operating conditions.
  – Additional settings observed which may increase the risk of system instability:
  – Disabling C-states
  – Increasing PL1 and PL2 beyond Intel recommended limits

Intel requests that system and motherboard manufacturers provide end users with a default BIOS profile that matches Intel's recommended settings.

• Intel strongly recommends customer’s default BIOS settings from the manufacturer should ensure operation within Intel’s specified recommended settings.
• In addition, Intel strongly recommends motherboard manufacturers to implement warnings for end users alerting them when there is any unlocked or overclocking feature usage.

Ok Intel, you didn't know that mobo manufactures was doing this that happen to make your CPU's look better on review !

We believe you, honest...

 

[G J]

Ok Intel, you didn't know that mobo manufactures was doing this that happen to make your CPU's look better on review !

We believe you, honest...

Gamers Nexus where raising concerns back a few years ago with z490 motherboards as they done a 30min video on it.

Do Not Use Z490 Motherboard Auto Settings: Excessive Voltage, Power, & Heat

Z490 motherboards for Intel's 10th Gen CPUs, including the i9-10900K & 10600K are all over the place for Vcore, power limits, and Turbo duration. MCE is back...

www.youtube.com

 

[Stu999]

Intel has released a statement and it suggests that out of the box pre overclocking for Intel motherboards is over

Will be interesting to see what the mobo manufacturers do with their overpriced, pre-overclocked boards. Probably continue to sell them anyway I imagine.

 

[throwaway4372]

When speccing a new build, what's the best way to ensure stability (defending yourself against mobo manufacturer shenanigans)? Is it buying a non-K cpu?

I had similar issues with my current Asus Z170 pro-gaming + 6700K build, had to do a bunch of stuff in the bios to reign in asus default behaviour. Don't want to deal with that again.

 

[Dave2150]

When speccing a new build, what's the best way to ensure stability (defending yourself against mobo manufacturer shenanigans)? Is it buying a non-K cpu?

I had similar issues with my current Asus Z170 pro-gaming + 6700K build, had to do a bunch of stuff in the bios to reign in asus default behaviour. Don't want to deal with that again.

Lots of the recent news is exaggerated - Intel K CPU's and premium motherboards such as ASUS boards are very stable and a solid choice.

If you buy appropriate cooling (360 AIO) a 13th or 14th gen i9 will run perfectly fine at stock. 99.9% of them will also run perfectly fine on "Remove all limits" profile, again as long as you have a decent case with plenty of air flow and fan RPM's set to ramp up/down according to CPU temperature.

That said, for gaming, I highly recommend ignoring Intel and going for AM5/Zen4x3d. You get the same (or better) performance, with up to hundreds of watts less heat/power consumption. Plus you can just insert a Zen5 CPU down the line for another easy upgrade.

 

[Jay85]

Lots of the recent news is exaggerated - Intel K CPU's and premium motherboards such as ASUS boards are very stable and a solid choice.

If you buy appropriate cooling (360 AIO) a 13th or 14th gen i9 will run perfectly fine at stock. 99.9% of them will also run perfectly fine on "Remove all limits" profile, again as long as you have a decent case with plenty of air flow and fan RPM's set to ramp up/down according to CPU temperature.

That said, for gaming, I highly recommend ignoring Intel and going for AM5/Zen4x3d. You get the same (or better) performance, with up to hundreds of watts less heat/power consumption. Plus you can just insert a Zen5 CPU down the line for another easy upgrade.

If i wasn't an early adopter of Alder Lake, i would have jumped ship now but since i've built everything around Intel it's difficult to switch out of it. Gonna wait and see what next gen intel and AMD brings since i'm switching an entire platform.

 

[KompuKare]

Ok Intel, you didn't know that mobo manufactures was doing this that happen to make your CPU's look better on review !

We believe you, honest...

The one thing I did mostly buy with the "nobody got fired for buying Intel" thinking is that Intel really are big enough to whole whole teams who only do some of this validation work. The "AMD may use two people in a basement to do X, while Intel will have one or two teams of 10s of people do X" line of thinking.
So a technical team working with Intel PR so that when sending out kit for launch reviews, a whole technical team gets to pick over kit and settings. And then the big question I have, did any of the launch reviews use Intel PR supplied kit and settings?

Anyway, this is why I find that Intel statement so suspicious.

So between this, and far more seriously a few years ago some Intel bean counting CEO getting rid of whole server validation teams, it is no wonder Intel have trouble.
Okay, going by Reddit it seems firing / getting rid wasn't quite the full story there:

Firing the server validation team is completely untrue.

However, Krzanich making terrible choices is indeed true:

• Closed one of the main sites where server validation was done. Not everyone moved to the new location, so a lot of experience was lost.
• Part of ACT was to incentivize experienced talent to take a big package and leave. One of the most short-sighted moves ever, and this was done company wide.

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/wj731n/comment/ijn0co1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Cost-cutting extraordinary and massive share-buyback (i.e. an admission that we don't have a clue what to do, are shouting SHORT TERM in huge letters, but will inflate shareprices - and our own stock options - because we can) was always going to end up with trouble down the line. Short-term thinking. Still it's nice that Intel are too big to fail and are about to get massive corporate welfare injections in various jurisdictions!

 

[Jay85]

If intel really want to shift more cpu's they should just drop the prices instead of including a free game that not everyone wants...

 

[Journey]

I find it funny that Intel still release daft SKU's like the 14900KS and 13900KS. There is such little demand for anything Intel in the enthusiast market anymore, having a a £600 CPU that is great for non-gamers, vs one that is half the price and does just as well in games. You can pick up a 7800X3D, B650/X670 board and 32GB DDR5 6400 C32 RAM for less than one of these CPU's and the X3D will out game it, so who are they targeting, loyalists and people who believe marketing hyperbole?

 

[Jay85]

I find it funny that Intel still release daft SKU's like the 14900KS and 13900KS. There is such little demand for anything Intel in the enthusiast market anymore, having a a £600 CPU that is great for non-gamers, vs one that is half the price and does just as well in games. You can pick up a 7800X3D, B650/X670 board and 32GB DDR5 6400 C32 RAM for less than one of these CPU's and the X3D will out game it, so who are they targeting, loyalists and people who believe marketing hyperbole?

They're literally aimed at groups and companies who are into record breaking, that's the only group of people seriously enough to buy them for competing in comps.

 

[Rroff]

I find the KS chips funny, slightly better binned chips which are good for "1%ing" records at best.

Personally I find the whole CPU market in a funny place currently.

 

[Glanza]

 

[LtMatt]

Interesting, the gaming performance drop is higher than I thought it would be. Mind you they are testing at 1080P Ultra with a 4090, will be less noticeable at 4K.

The next CPU benchmark comparison video HUB do vs the X3D is going to be interesting. The gap is going to widen vs the 7950X3D after this.

 

[Glanza]

For anyone with a Gigabyte board.

 

[Vimes]

For anyone with a Gigabyte board.

BZ his informative, just good if he had a tldr part at the end, lol.

My Z690 Gigabyte motherboard, with my RL CPU will by default, use unlimited power limits, too much vcore as well. It seems that, after reading a Gigabyte press release, that they have not address those, so far, in terms of BIOS releases to offer a Intel baseline option.