159mph copper's aquittal overturned

cymatty · 1 Feb 2006 at 13:59

[TW]Fox said:
So what do you want them to do, drive on public roads at 70mph only so when one day they need to hoof it on an emergency they.... have virtually zero experience of doing so in a public environment?

Nice one guys. You can't practive driving in a road environment anywhere but on the road.

No, to stick to the 120mph as set out in the guidelines.

doofer · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:00

I don't care if it was god driving himself..it's not just him, it's the other idiots on the road he was endangering, who as anyone who drives will know lack even the most basic driving skills from time to time..

I'd give him a 3 Yr Jail Sentence and 10 Yr Driving Ban, he can lose his job as he's obviously not fit to be a Copper anyway.

Firestar_3x · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:00

No matter how good he is, if he comes flying down the motorway at 160 and someone pulls out his gods gift style driving skills will not stop him for slamming into the back of the car.

The police need to practice high speed driving, i don't have a problem with that but he was doing it cause he could....

Simon · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:01

[TW]Fox said:
Obviously this wont apply here becuase everyone here thinks they are the next Solberg, but generally, a Class 1 trained police driver has skill far in advance of anything the general public can muster.

I'd go so far as to say they'd probably be safer at 159mph than most people are at 80mph.

They still have no effect on the other factors, anyone can drive at 160mph. Only a public road its not as straight forward as that, yes they may have better observation skills but still external factors are what makes it unsafe.

If a member of the public got caught speeding they would get bent right over, yet for some reason this guy can/may get away with it. Surely they should famialrise themselves on a proper private test track.

Have you ever gone over 100mph Fox? Everything happens a lot lot faster, and even with reactions of superman you wont be able to deal with external factors at 159mph like you would at 70, even 80-90mph.

Simon · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:04

[TW]Fox said:
So what do you want them to do, drive on public roads at 70mph only so when one day they need to hoof it on an emergency they.... have virtually zero experience of doing so in a public environment?

Since when will a police car have to go at 150mph though.

If they are chasing someone then its gonna be fairly clear for the guy they are following to go that fast. If someone is driving that fast they will no doubt get a helicopter on it too. All a police car will be doing is following, it won't be able to slow the car down at 150mph.

[TW]Fox · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:04

It wasn't as if he was just sat there on the cruise at 159mph is it? He drove at a range of speeds and PEAKED at 159mph - and I doubt that was on a busy stretch of the M1 just approaching a junction..

Che · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:05

[TW]Fox said:
So what do you want them to do, drive on public roads at 70mph only so when one day they need to hoof it on an emergency they.... have virtually zero experience of doing so in a public environment?

Nice one guys. You can't practive driving in a road environment anywhere but on the road.

He might be a police officer but that doesn't mean he's above the law all the time. Let them do training on the road but only when they're authorised by someone above them for example. That might have changed didly-squat in the situation everyone's arguing about but he should be punished for thinking he can do what he wants just because he's in the filth. Everyone knows he should have been arresting dangerous drug users instead

lordedmond · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:06

Firestar_3x said:
No matter how good he is, if he comes flying down the motorway at 160 and someone pulls out his gods gift style driving skills will not stop him for slamming into the back of the car.

The police need to practice high speed driving, i don't have a problem with that but he was doing it cause he could....

totaly agree

yes I can drive fast and corner fast , on a track yes , public roads no way its not safe

I have a couple of pots to prove it as I hold a competition licence "single seater" before you ask

[TW]Fox · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:07

Driving fast around a track is of no real value if your practical application for these skills will be a road based environment.

Simon · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:17

[TW]Fox said:
Driving fast around a track is of no real value if your practical application for these skills will be a road based environment.

So what exactly is he learning?

How to put other people at risk as much as possible. His excuses was familiaring himself with the car. Why does this need to be done on the road?

[TW]Fox · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:21

How can you familiarise yourself with a cars road performance on a race track?

Muncher · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:28

doofer said:
I'd give him a 3 Yr Jail Sentence and 10 Yr Driving Ban, he can lose his job as he's obviously not fit to be a Copper anyway.

Get off your high horse, he didn't hurt anyone at all!

Muggers, burglars, drug dealers and all manner of criminals would get let off with not much more than a slap on the wrist and you'd lock up a serving police officer for 3 years for doing his job! :rolleyes:

I know dozens of people who will hit that speed most times they drive with ease, it is NOT dangerous in an awful lot of circustances.

Simon · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:29

[TW]Fox said:
How can you familiarise yourself with a cars road performance on a race track?

Surely familiarising yourself with how a car handles at speed can be done anywhere, not just on a track. High speed test circuit for one if it is as crucial as you seem to make out then it should be part of driving training.

Lets be honest it's a lame excuse for a policeman who wanted to drive fast. If he was actually 'learning' why was he in the car alone?

Anyway Im bored of going around in circles now

Pug · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:30

If he needs to drive fast to do his job, which he does, then he needs to practise driving fast to be effective at it.

To allow for this they have the 120mph limit, whereby pursuit drivers are allowed to drive "legally" to 120mph. He was going over that limit, and as such was breaking rules.

some action SHOULD be taken.

and lets be honest having driven at 155mph on a motorbike there is little difference between 120 & 150 in the way the bike handled.

You can learn all you need to at 120mph (assuming were talking motorway driving that is)

Oracle · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:30

[TW]Fox said:
It wasn't as if he was just sat there on the cruise at 159mph is it? He drove at a range of speeds and PEAKED at 159mph - and I doubt that was on a busy stretch of the M1 just approaching a junction..

Which kind of contradicts everything you've been saying. Driving at 159mph on an empty motorway constitues absolutley NO skill what so ever. Real world driving would have put him at a busy junction on the M1...

Yes, they need to be trained, but shut the road off and create no critical situations that need to be dealt with, dont just drive at 159mph because he wanted to get 'familiar' with the car. He'll never have to do 159mph, in police chases helicopters take over from 120mph onwards.

If he had killed someone, and used the same excuse, would this debate be going the same way, I certainly dont think so.

He should not have done it out of a controlled environment, end of.

tzang · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:42

[TW]Fox said:
If he can handle a car properly at 159mph then 130mph in a pursuit would be a breeze.

Not really to the point but how often do you even get a pursuit in the UK exceeding 120mph? There really isn't a need to do 159mph for "familiarising" with a new car.

I can understand the need to get to an emergency quickly and training is essential, I'd probably let him off for that motorway incident just for the reason you underlined:

[TW]Fox said:
I'd rather these guys got all the practice they can, experience breeds perfection.

However, he was also clocked doing 84 in a 30mph zone and 131 in a 60mph zone too since he wasn't just clocked speeding on the motorway. Why is there a need to speed everywhere he goes? He could do those speeds in pretty much any copper car he picks up from the base... and surely you don't need to familirise yourself at those speeds on those roads in a Vauxhall Vectra

And why did he not get or even ask for supervision at those speeds? He is only ranked a Pc... nothing more.

bam0 · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:49

Another point, the guidelines expressing they should not exceed 120mph only seem to have been made after the fact, at least in West Mercia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/4559173.stm

From Article Above said:
The magistrate also expressed concern at West Mercia Constabulary's "total lack of policy" on when and where police drivers should practise driving at very high speeds.

But speaking after the case, a police spokesman said the force was to clarify the guidance issued to advanced drivers.

Skunkworks · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:54

He looks like a wife beater to me.

kitten_caboodle · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:54

willd58 said:
It was a woman judge ( ), who obviously doesnt understand the concept of driving fast Vs driving dangerously. A sad day for our namby pamby legal system when a police officer is repremanded for doing what hes trained to do.

Hi... just to clarify this it was actually two judges. One male, one female. As for not understanding the concept of driving fast Vs dangerously, that's actually irrelevant. They are not there to argue that case they are simply saying that the evidence given in his defence was opinion and therefore inadmissable.

Hence the acquittal, as the evidence given was not based on fact, and therefore cannot constitute a defence.

Secondly, i partially agree with the thoughts that police need to be able to 'practice' high speed driving, but the guy reached 91 in a 30mph zone which is not acceptable in any case imho.

Finally, on that subject, with 73 people killed during police chases in the last 2 years, they certainly do need practice, but surely there are circumstances and procedures to follow to get this practice and I'm guessing he didn't follow them as he didn't follow the police's own guidelines.

doofer · 1 Feb 2006 at 14:57

Muncher said:
Get off your high horse, he didn't hurt anyone at all!

Muggers, burglars, drug dealers and all manner of criminals would get let off with not much more than a slap on the wrist and you'd lock up a serving police officer for 3 years for doing his job!

I know dozens of people who will hit that speed most times they drive with ease, it is NOT dangerous in an awful lot of circustances.

Ain't me whose on a high horse son, old Plod are the preachers of speed kill's etc. Unless of course it's one of theirs doing it.

He didn't hurt anyone no, so anyone that's nicked for speeding in the UK, but didn't hurt anyone gets a medal instead of a fine/points/ban from now on too eh?

Yup, I'd lock him up..for NOT doing his job.

You know dozens who hit 160MPH most time they drive? It's not dangerous?, here have a :rolleyes:

back at ya..