159mph copper's aquittal overturned

Simon · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:20

[TW]Fox said:
Of all the people who could post something as ridiculous as that, I never, ever thought it would be you.

Just grip tight and hold on as there's not a lot you can do if something goes wrong at that speed.

Its a lot more to do with the car and drivers bravery than the drivers skill

Oracle · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:20

[TW]Fox said:
The road is NOT a race track -

Funny, a policeman said that to me once as I approaced the plus side of 100mph on an empty dual carriageway at 2am!

Simon · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:21

hilly said:
You don't, you practice the SKILLS needed to be an advanced driver, you get a feel of the car at those high speeds, so that when a pursuit does happen, you know how the car will handle when going over a bump or overtaking a lorry.

And when someone crosses the road in a 30 zone as he goes by at 80+mph

Archangelus · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:23

Everyone's focusing on the 159mph speed this guy did. If I remember rightly, the incar video that was used to prosecute him also showed him doing 70 in a 30, 100 in a 70, and then this 159 on the motorway. His excuse that he was familiarising himself with the vehicle is utter bobbins. He saw the opportunity to go out for a blast in a high performance car, and took it.

I'd agree that, as a class 1 police driver, he was far better equipped to deal with those kinds of speeds than a normal driver, but even so, 70 in a 30 is just insane. There is a need for police drivers to practice high speed driving, but to do those sort of speeds on open public roads is just madness.

Brum Man · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:24

I'm sorry but just to re-itterate

The guidelines allow for officers to exceed limits, but never to drive at more than 120mph.

Yes he may be the creme de la creme, be better than senna, highly trained BUT the fact is that they have guidelines to follow like the rest of us, so why should he get away with it?

Also, wasn't it the case that they are meant to get approval before doing this sort of testing, but when he did his testing he didn't actually tell anyone he was doing?

So he's so far broken 2 guide lines that he is meant to follow as a police officer, both of which could cause life threatening situations if anything had gone wrong and he is still allowed to get away with it?

davebax22 · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:25

do people actualy think before they type

as a police man we are trained to asses all situations on there merits, dosnt mean he will drive at 80 in a 30, the police are trained to do this sort of stuff there there to save lives not take them, its policy not to chace a car if its driving iratic and may cause death or injury to others, all situations are diffrent, and we train for as many as we can.

merlin · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:26

The guy would never have to drive at 159mph - or even anywhere close to that. The guy was an opportunist.

As said, Helicopters and other tactics take over at very high speeds.

Archangelus · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:27

Fact is, he wasn't on a shout, he was out for a high speed blast. I see the requirement for police drivers to practice high speed driving, but his behaviour was little short of moronic. His speed was excessive to put it politely, even given his training, and some form of punishment should be dealt.

kitten_caboodle · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:28

davebax22 said:
do people actualy think before they type

as a police man we are trained to asses all situations on there merits, dosnt mean he will drive at 80 in a 30, the police are trained to do this sort of stuff there there to save lives not take them, its policy not to chace a car if its driving iratic and may cause death or injury to others, all situations are diffrent, and we train for as many as we can.

However there are procedures. And if they are followed, no problem. As someone said before, Police have to deal with firearms. Would they shoot someone so they can see how to deal with a shooting incident?? Of course not. That would be moronic. IMO 'Being a policeman' is not an excuse to break the law. End of.

davebax22 · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:30

the only way you learn is to read, study and practise practise practise

pdw8 · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:30

Helicopters are great but they can take time to get to the scene, they are usually ground based and only deploy for a specific incident.
You still need car based officers to keep up until the helicopter can take over.

[TW]Fox · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:31

Brum Man said:
I'm sorry but just to re-itterate

Yes he may be the creme de la creme, be better than senna, highly trained BUT the fact is that they have guidelines to follow like the rest of us, so why should he get away with it?

These guidelines were not introduced until after this case happened the first time, in response to this case. No such guidelines existed at the time of the 'incident'.

davebax22 · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:33

guidelines are guidelines, granted he made a mistake, but 120mph is nothing i bet theres people on here that do that speed on a daily basis,

and to say do you shoot to learn yes you do but its in a safe inviroment and you practise practise practise

kitten_caboodle · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:33

davebax22 said:
the only way you learn is to read, study and practise practise practise

......as long as you are following procedures. THey are there to protect the public. This is an isolated incident, however, it could have ended badly and we would not be having this discussion. Taking it upon yourself to do what you want and then blaming it on your job is not a valid defence. If a security guard nicked something from a shop then said he had just taken it upon himself to do so, without telling anyone, to 'get better at his job' then, he would NOT get away with it.

Not seeing much difference here tbh.

pdw8 · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:34

To be honest I think most people are making such a fuss because they can't do it and are jealous.

preparing to get flamed now

Aliboy · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:34

I don't normally chip in on the ol' motors forum but I think I'll make an exception to this thread.

After reading all of the posts it seems as though one thing sticks out like a sore thumb. Fox is not going to back down on his argument against this story of the copper.

I ride both 4 and 2 wheels and have never had any inclination to take my car on a track, but I have taken my bike on a track on more than one occasion. I have learned to handle my bike with greater speed, control and braking than I could ever have learned on a public road. This has made me without a doubt a far more safer rider on public roads. I was taught to ride my bike by one of Scotland's (if not the) most experienced traffic policemen there is. This guy teaches other officers in the traffic division to the standard of instructor on both 2 and 4 wheels should they wish to proceed that far with their career. So in my eyes he is a pretty safe bet when it comes to learning how to get the most from a machine. Guess who it was that told me that if I ever wanted to get invaluable experience from learning more about my bike that I should visit a track? Sure, every corner is the same time and time again and we know that nothing is going to be nothing around the corner, but what you do get is a greater learning curve by performing the same task time and time again. I wouldn't go as far as saying that a track is completely different from a normal road but what does stand out is the hazards that you can encounter. That's what makes the difference. For example, why do traffic officers visit 'skid pans' to home in on their already greater knowledge of driving? Surely they could just go out when the public roads are icy and try it there? They don't because it's not safe. A poor excuse of 'familiarising' yourself with a car at those speeds on public roads is not acceptable and he should be dealt with fairly and not be made a scape goat out of.
Yes, we all want the police to arrive quickly and to catch the baddies

but we also want it done without any injury to the public whilst they are doing their job. It seems to me that for a brief moment of madness he exceeded what was laid down in his guidelines and he was caught.
Sorry if I seemed to go on a bit there (and Fox, I wasn't having a dig at you mate

), but I think he should be punished, but at the same time there should be a more exhaustive training scheme in place where officers can gradually learn to deal with the elements of high speed and hazards in a controlled environment. Surely the experience they would gain there would only go to make them better (safer) drivers on public roads.

And if you've never done a track day in your bike or car then I would highly recommend it. You really will learn a helluva lot and you won't stop grinning for a week

Rant over. Thanks for listening

Brum Man · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:34

davebax22 said:
as a police man we are trained to asses all situations on there merits, dosnt mean he will drive at 80 in a 30, the police are trained to do this sort of stuff there there to save lives not take them, its policy not to chace a car if its driving iratic and may cause death or injury to others, all situations are diffrent, and we train for as many as we can.

According to this you are trained not to do above 120mph.

"In West Mercia, clear guidelines which ensure that all advanced drivers know what they can and cannot do when driving vehicles above the posted speed limit - in accordance with national training guidelines - have been circulated."

"The guidelines allow for officers to exceed limits, but never to drive at more than 120mph"

[TW]Fox · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:35

pdw8 said:
To be honest I think most people are making such a fuss because they can't do it and are jealous.

This is exactly how I feel. This forum is full of performance car enthusiasts who enjoy driving fast. IMHO the 'omg its dangerous' stuff is a load of BS and the real reason is 'I'd have been nicked if it was me, thats so unfair'.

molinari · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:39

Having just read through all the posts, I was going to post my own opinion but there's no point now as Aliboy has summed it up almost perfectly for me

.

kitten_caboodle · 1 Feb 2006 at 16:40

[TW]Fox said:
This is exactly how I feel. This forum is full of performance car enthusiasts who enjoy driving fast. IMHO the 'omg its dangerous' stuff is a load of BS and the real reason is 'I'd have been nicked if it was me, thats so unfair'.

lmao. If you saw my car you wouldn't be saying that. If I was nicked doing 160mph, not only would my car be around half a minute behind me, but I would take it on the chin. I'm sure you are right there are some who are jealous, but as someone who has been a direct witness to an accident involving a police car (their fault entirely), I can assure you that my opinions have nothing to do with being sore because i'd be done.

However, I am sure some people will be aggreived that they are fined and given points for going a few miles over the speed limit, when a copper can ignore all rhyme and reason, drive at clearly inappropriate speeds and get off with nowt (well he would have done, bar the publicity this case now has). Why the hell shouldn't they be hacked off?