2005 San Marino Grand Prix

Flibster · 25 Apr 2005 at 10:31

Ammended Race Results - May still change due to Toyota appeal.

Code:

[b]Pos	No	Driver			Team			Laps	Time		Grid	Points[/b]
1	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			62	1:27:41.921	2	10 
2	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			62	+0.2 secs	13	8 
3	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		62	+10.4 secs	3	6 
4	10	Alexander Wurz		McLaren-Mercedes	62	+27.5 secs	7	5 
5	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		62	+34.7 secs	6	4 
6	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		62	+64.4 secs	11	3 
7	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			62	+70.2 secs	5	2 
8	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		62	+71.2 secs	8	1 
9	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		62	+83.2 secs	4   
10	15	Vitantonio Liuzzi	Red Bull Racing		62	+83.7 secs	15   
11	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			62	+95.8 secs	10  
12	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		61	+1 Lap		18	 
13	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		61	+1 Lap		14	 
14	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		61	+1 Lap		16	 
15	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		60	+2 Laps		17	 
Ret	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	20	Hydraulics	20	 
Ret	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			18	Electrical	9	 
Ret	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	9	Driveshaft	1	 
Ret	20	Patrick Friesacher	Minardi-Cosworth	8	Clutch		19	 
Ret	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			5	Accident	12

Current Champiochip Standings

2005 Drivers Championship - May still change due to Toyota appeal.

Code:

[b]Pos	Driver			Nationality	Team			Points[/b]
1 	Fernando Alonso 	Spanish 	Renault 		36
2	Jarno Trulli		Italian		Toyota			18
=4	Giancarlo Fisichella 	Italian		Renault 		10 
=4	Michael Schumacher	German		Ferrari			10
=6	Ralf Schumacher		German		Toyota			9
=6	David Coulthard 	British 	Red Bull Racing 	9
=8 	Rubens Barrichello 	Brazilian 	Ferrari 		8 
=8	Juan Pablo Montoya	Colombian	McLaren-Mercedes	8 
=11	Kimi Räikkönen		Finnish		McLaren-Mercedes	7
=11	Mark Webber		Australian	Williams-BMW		7 
=11	Nick Heidfeld		German		Williams-BMW		7
12	Jenson Button		British		B.A.R. Honda		6
13	Alex Wurz		Austrian	McLaren-Mercedes	5
=15	Pedro De la Rosa	Spanish		McLaren-Mercedes	4
=15	Takuma Sato		Japanese	B.A.R. Honda		4
=17	Christian Klien		Austrian	Red Bull Racing		3
=17	Jacques Villeneuve	Canadian	Sauber-Petronas		3
18	Felipe Massa		Brazilian	Sauber-Petronas		2

2005 Constructors Championship - May still change due to Toyota appeal.

Code:

[b]Pos	Constructor 		Points[/b]
1	Renault			46
2	Toyota			27
3	McLaren-Mercedes	24
4	Ferrari			18
5	Williams-BMW		14
6	Red Bull Racing		12
7	B.A.R. Honda		10
8	Sauber-Petronas		5

Joe T · 25 Apr 2005 at 10:33

Sorry Simon, I didnt see your earlier reply. Thanks for replying again.

Flibster · 25 Apr 2005 at 10:48

Here we go...the lap chart.

Emlyn_Dewar · 25 Apr 2005 at 17:39

So now we have all these rumours of BAR's "secret fuel tank" and the car being massively under-weight at numerous races, not so good. I really hope that none of this is true or that's another nail in the coffin for F1. They'd surely be banned if this is true and if only 9 teams were left competing then the grid would be a little TOO empty for my liking, it's already bad!

Flibster · 25 Apr 2005 at 17:55

Oh ****...it's getting better.

The FIA are sticking their noses in again...

Button could lose Imola points

Formula One racing’s governing body, the FIA, has announced it is to appeal against the decision of San Marino Grand Prix stewards concerning the weight of Jenson Button’s BAR car.

Following Sunday’s event, in which Button finished third, his car was found to be underweight after being drained of fuel. However, BAR then supplied an explanation, satisfying the stewards that the car was legal throughout the race.

However, the FIA is obviously not happy with the stewards’ verdict and the matter is now provisionally scheduled to go before the International Court of Appeal in Paris on May 4.

Expressing their surprise at the FIA move, BAR’s CEO Nick Fry commented: "BAR Honda will provide the same rigorous data presented to the stewards last night and is confident that it can prove once again that the car was fully compliant with the FIA Technical Regulations throughout the San Marino Grand Prix."

Should the FIA’s appeal prove successful, Button could be disqualified from the Imola results, which would elevate McLaren’s Alexander Wurz to third place and bring Williams’ Mark Webber up into the points in eighth.

Fire 1 · 25 Apr 2005 at 18:40

Rubens car suffered an electical fault that has never happened before in testing. As for it always happening to Rubens, whos car suffered a hydrolic problem at Bahrain.

Button hesitated going into Acque Minerali and MS closed up. Then when MS passed Button going into Cariante Alta, the Williams was not close enough to hold Button up, best race of the season so far.

Looks like Trulli has taken over from JV in the rolling road block role.

SC04 · 26 Apr 2005 at 10:34

Arc said:
Thing is, with the current regs they cant overtake. Looking at the pace of Schuey compared to Button (3 seconds a lap faster at one point) he still couldnt get by until Button made a very basic mistake and hesitated. The aero regs have went to far and really are killing the sport. Plus with a track as sanitised as Imola (although in this case you can argue with good reason) there are just no places to pass easily.

Is it just me or does every F1 thread end up with this discussion at some point? Wish they would just sort the sport out.

It annoys me that Max Mosley said last year that 'it was time to start listening to what the fans want'
Then when they set up the working groups to decide on the way forward not one fan was present.

Ive always fancied the idea of having wider tracks and have the run off areas going under grandstands, Im sure the safety issues could be got around.
With the many new tracks being desgined the issue certainly doesnt get any better.

Emlyn_Dewar · 26 Apr 2005 at 11:09

Max Mosely couldn't give a **** what the fans want, I don't really understand what he is trying to do to the sport but it certainly isn't good...

SC04 · 26 Apr 2005 at 11:35

Type_R said:
Remind me again who Alonso overtoke today.

MS overtoke well lets see now u start in 13th, 3 cars ahead of u drop out, u finish in 2nd...hmmm...!

Interesting the little credit Ross Brawn gets, what would other drivers have given for the kind of strategies that Ross has pulled out of the bag over the years?

Driver of the day was Alonso without any doubt, he was nursing that car, he was also doing far more braking than normal to stop Schuy getting the run, it wasnt just 'the Torque of the Renault'.
3 Wins in a row with a car that has not been the class of the pack, and the first engine to win 2 races!
Alonso deserves a lot more credit, but the Schumacher ('its him and not the car') hype machine keeps rolling, we still havent seen Alonso crack under pressure, which is a trade mark of schuy, and if schuy knew he had no chance of overtaking Alonso he would have taken him out, like he has done 5 times in the past when he knows he's beaten.

Anyway it was a great battle, just a shame if Alonso wins with the new/new Renault engine in spain it will be the car that beats schuy and not the man.

Deleted member 11679 · 26 Apr 2005 at 11:40

Joe T said:
Anyone? Thanks

I phoned them yesterday and was going to go down today. I got told:

Tuesday - BMW
Wednesday - BMW & Jordan
Thursday - BMW & Jordan

...Not going to bother unless more than 2 teams are there...especially seeing as Jordan is the most boring car out there by far now.

Emlyn_Dewar · 26 Apr 2005 at 13:47

Interesting that people can use "the torque of the renault" excuse but whenever it is suggested that Schumi wins "because he's in the best car" that gets rubbished and I am referred to as an anti...

Domo · 26 Apr 2005 at 13:58

SC04 said:
...and if schuy knew he had no chance of overtaking Alonso he would have taken him out, like he has done 5 times in the past when he knows he's beaten.

Not so sure about that. I think MS pushes too hard when he's not winning which forces errors. I don't think it's anything deliberate, at least I wouldn't like to think so.

SC04 said:
Interesting the little credit Ross Brawn gets, what would other drivers have given for the kind of strategies that Ross has pulled out of the bag over the years?

However you're quite right there. Ferrari are renowned for their race stratagy which has won them many a race. It's not just about the car and driver.

Emlyn_Dewar · 26 Apr 2005 at 14:20

Domo said:
Not so sure about that. I think MS pushes too hard when he's not winning which forces errors. I don't think it's anything deliberate, at least I wouldn't like to think so.

[cough]Adelaide '94[/cough]

Domo · 26 Apr 2005 at 14:22

Emlyn_Dewar said:
[cough]Adelaide '94[/cough]

Yeah ok there may have been the odd suspect occassion

Flibster · 26 Apr 2005 at 14:31

Emlyn_Dewar said:
[cough]Adelaide '94[/cough]

European GP 1997?

But then again - he was disqualified form the 1997 season after the FIA enquiry for that one.

And we can go back to before F1 as well.

It's something he's done regularly in various championships.

Also when he's under pressure he usually has terrible races. Japan 2003 for example. Was there anyone he didn't collide with?

Anyway...B.A.R. seem confident that they can persuade the FIA that their car was overweight for the whole season.

Should be easy to do anyway. The FIA know how heavy it was at the end of Qualifying 2 - BAR know how much fuel they put in - this is also confirmed with the FIA during the race. They know the weight of the fuel that was being used - as does the FIA.

Don't see the problem really.

Simon/~Flibster

Joe T · 26 Apr 2005 at 16:22

TomWilko said:
I phoned them yesterday and was going to go down today. I got told:

Tuesday - BMW
Wednesday - BMW & Jordan
Thursday - BMW & Jordan

...Not going to bother unless more than 2 teams are there...especially seeing as Jordan is the most boring car out there by far now.

Cheers for that. I never rang them in the end.

I went today and saw Williams. I have some pictures in a thread here

I might go again on Thurs, especially if there will be two teams there.

If you decide to go down either tomorrow or Thurs let me know and maybe we could meet up.

Cheers

siztenboots · 26 Apr 2005 at 17:16

Stormrider said:
ARTICLE 4 : WEIGHT
4.1 Minimum weight :
The weight of the car must not be less than 605 kg during the
qualifying practice session and no less than 600 kg at all other
times during the Event.
4.2 Ballast :
Ballast can be used provided it is secured in such a way that tools
are required for its removal. It must be possible to fix seals if
deemed necessary by the FIA technical delegate.
4.3 Adding during the race :
With the exception of fuel and compressed gases, no substance
may be added to the car during the race. If it becomes necessary to
replace any part of the car during the race, the new part must not
weigh any more than the original part.

4.1 Just means the teams stick 5Kg of ballast on the plank for that quali session only.

4.3 Apart from steering wheels, replacement front wings. Anything else that teams replace

Flibster · 27 Apr 2005 at 19:53

Second set of Ammended Race Results - May still change due to Toyota appeal and BAR Investigaton.

Code:

[b]Pos	No	Driver			Team			Laps	Time		Grid	Points[/b]
1	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			62	1:27:41.921	2	10 
2	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			62	+0.2 secs	13	8 
3	10	Alexander Wurz		McLaren-Mercedes	62	+27.5 secs	7	6 
4	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		62	+34.7 secs	6	5 
5	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		62	+64.4 secs	11	4 
6	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			62	+70.2 secs	5	3 
7	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		62	+71.2 secs	8	2 
8	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		62	+83.2 secs	4	1
9	15	Vitantonio Liuzzi	Red Bull Racing		62	+83.7 secs	15   
10	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			62	+95.8 secs	10  
11	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		61	+1 Lap		18	 
12	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		61	+1 Lap		14	 
13	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		61	+1 Lap		16	 
14	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		60	+2 Laps		17	 
Ret	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	20	Hydraulics	20	 
Ret	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			18	Electrical	9	 
Ret	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	9	Driveshaft	1	 
Ret	20	Patrick Friesacher	Minardi-Cosworth	8	Clutch		19	 
Ret	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			5	Accident	12	
Excl	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		62	+10.4 secs	3		Car underweight

Current Champiochip Standings

2005 Drivers Championship - May still change due to Toyota appeal and BAR Investigaton.

Code:

[b]Pos	Driver			Nationality	Team			Points[/b]
1 	Fernando Alonso 	Spanish 	Renault 		36
2	Jarno Trulli		Italian		Toyota			18
=4	Giancarlo Fisichella 	Italian		Renault 		10 
=4	Michael Schumacher	German		Ferrari			10
=6	Ralf Schumacher		German		Toyota			9
=6	David Coulthard 	British 	Red Bull Racing 	9
=9 	Rubens Barrichello 	Brazilian 	Ferrari 		8
=9	Juan Pablo Montoya	Colombian	McLaren-Mercedes	8 
=9	Mark Webber		Australian	Williams-BMW		8
=11	Kimi Räikkönen		Finnish		McLaren-Mercedes	7
=11	Nick Heidfeld		German		Williams-BMW		7
12	Alex Wurz		Austrian	McLaren-Mercedes	5
=14	Pedro De la Rosa	Spanish		McLaren-Mercedes	4
=14	Takuma Sato		Japanese	B.A.R. Honda		4
=16	Christian Klien		Austrian	Red Bull Racing		3
=16	Jacques Villeneuve	Canadian	Sauber-Petronas		3
17	Felipe Massa		Brazilian	Sauber-Petronas		2

2005 Constructors Championship - May still change due to Toyota appeal and BAR Investigaton.

Code:

[b]Pos	Constructor 		Points[/b]
1	Renault			46
2	Toyota			27
3	McLaren-Mercedes	24
4	Ferrari			18
5	Williams-BMW		15
6	Red Bull Racing		12
=8	B.A.R. Honda		5
=8	Sauber-Petronas		5

Richard T · 27 Apr 2005 at 21:01

SC04 said:
Driver of the day was Alonso without any doubt, he was nursing that car, he was also doing far more braking than normal to stop Schuy getting the run, it wasnt just 'the Torque of the Renault'.
3 Wins in a row with a car that has not been the class of the pack, and the first engine to win 2 races!
Alonso deserves a lot more credit, but the Schumacher ('its him and not the car') hype machine keeps rolling, we still havent seen Alonso crack under pressure, which is a trade mark of schuy, and if schuy knew he had no chance of overtaking Alonso he would have taken him out, like he has done 5 times in the past when he knows he's beaten.

Anyway it was a great battle, just a shame if Alonso wins with the new/new Renault engine in spain it will be the car that beats schuy and not the man.

Wow did I just think this or what :eek:

I TOTALLY agree with you on all of the above

Type_R · 27 Apr 2005 at 21:53

SC04 said:
Interesting the little credit Ross Brawn gets, what would other drivers have given for the kind of strategies that Ross has pulled out of the bag over the years?

Driver of the day was Alonso without any doubt, he was nursing that car, he was also doing far more braking than normal to stop Schuy getting the run, it wasnt just 'the Torque of the Renault'.
3 Wins in a row with a car that has not been the class of the pack, and the first engine to win 2 races!
Alonso deserves a lot more credit, but the Schumacher ('its him and not the car') hype machine keeps rolling, we still havent seen Alonso crack under pressure, which is a trade mark of schuy, and if schuy knew he had no chance of overtaking Alonso he would have taken him out, like he has done 5 times in the past when he knows he's beaten.

Anyway it was a great battle, just a shame if Alonso wins with the new/new Renault engine in spain it will be the car that beats schuy and not the man.

LOL, we shall wait and see. I don't think those renaults will be anywhere near the ferraris at Spain.

I am just sitting here wondering how old you are and how much insight you have in the sport.

2005 San Marino Grand Prix

Deleted member 11679

Deleted member 11679