2005 United States Grand Prix

goreblast · 19 Jun 2005 at 23:52

To have run the race with all teams and the Michellin runners getting no points would have been plain wrong. What would have happened if 6 of the top 8 cars where michellin shod, would only the 2 ferrars get points. Surely they couldnt be given to minardi as they would have been 18th or so? Also say Shuey is winning and Kimi or Alonso has the chance they could delibrately put them out as lose nothing, only win. It would have been a major disadvantage to the Bridgestone teams. Also there could have been a 1st corner pile up with all the michellin drivers having all or nothing attitude as they race doesnt count. I dont think many of the racing drivers (if the truth be told) would want to race when there was nothing to gain from it (and everything to lose).

The best solution would have been for Michellin to stick with what they said late on saturday that the tyres where good for 10 laps and allow them to change as many times as possible (but they would have to change within 1/2 laps of the 10th lap) you are penalising them only and you still have a race. Dont think even Kimi could be ahead of the Minardis if he had to make 6 tyre stops. Also people are saying about them running out of tyres, well was it not only the left rear that was the problem - just keep changing the one tyre then (they are bound to have other worn tyres) or if they had to be new, change both rears or all 4 (they could have flown more tyres out even).

goreblast · 20 Jun 2005 at 00:00

USA GP Results

Code:

Pos	No	Driver Team				Laps	Time/Retired Grid	Points 
						 
1	1	Michael Schumacher Ferrari		73	1:29:43.181 	5	10 
2	2	Rubens Barrichello Ferrari		73	+1.5 secs 	7	8 
3	18	Tiago Monteiro Jordan-Toyota		72	+1 Lap 		17	6 
4	19	Narain Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota	72	+1 Lap 		19	5 
5	21	Christijan Albers Minardi-Cosworth	71	+2 Lap 		18	4 
6	20	Patrick Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth	71	+2 Lap 		20	3 
Ret	16	Jarno Trulli Toyota			0	Withdrew 	1	 
Ret	9	Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes		0	Withdrew	2	 
Ret	3	Jenson Button BAR-Honda			0	Withdrew 	3	 
Ret	6	Giancarlo Fisichella Renault		0	Withdrew 	4	 
Ret	5	Fernando Alonso Renault			0	Withdrew 	6	 
Ret	4	Takuma Sato BAR-Honda			0	Withdrew 	8	 
Ret	7	Mark Webber Williams-BMW		0	Withdrew 	9	
Ret	12	Felipe Massa Sauber-Petronas		0	Withdrew 	10	
Ret	10	Juan Pablo Montoya McLaren-Mercedes	0	Withdrew	11	
Ret	11	Jacques Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas	0	Withdrew 	12	
Ret	17	Ricardo Zonta Toyota			0	Withdrew 	13	
Ret	15	Christian Klien Red Bull Racing		0	Withdrew 	14	
Ret	8	Nick Heidfeld Williams-BMW		0	Withdrew 	15
Ret	14	David Coulthard Red Bull Racing		0	Withdrew 	16	 
						 
Fastest Lap: Michael Schumacher 1:11.497 
 
Official Result

goreblast · 20 Jun 2005 at 00:05

Fastest Lap Times

Code:

Pos	No	Driver 			Team 			Lap	Time Of Day	Average Speed	Time 
						 
1	1	Michael Schumacher 	Ferrari 		48	14:01:59	211.074		1:11.497 
2	2	Rubens Barrichello 	Ferrari 		48	14:01:56	210.626		1:11.649 
3	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota 		44	13:57:55	206.059		1:13.237 
4	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota 		65	14:24:50	205.686		1:13.370 
5	21	Christijan Albers 	Minardi-Cosworth 	2	13:05:45	204.191		1:13.907 
6	20	Patrick Friesacher 	Minardi-Cosworth 	43	13:57:38	202.593		1:14.490

Pit Stop Summary

Code:

Stop	No	Driver 			Team 			Lap	Time Of Day	Time	Total Pit Time 
						 
1	21	Christijan Albers 	Minardi-Cosworth 	10	13:15:39	25.413		25.413 
1	20	Patrick Friesacher 	Minardi-Cosworth 	19	13:27:00	27.373		27.373 
1	19	Narain Karthikeyan 	Jordan-Toyota 		20	13:28:03	25.162		25.162 
1	18	Tiago Monteiro 		Jordan-Toyota 		22	13:30:18	24.137		24.137 
1	2	Rubens Barrichello 	Ferrari 		24	13:32:25	25.855		25.855 
1	1	Michael Schumacher 	Ferrari 		26	13:34:49	32.866		32.866 
2	21	Christijan Albers 	Minardi-Cosworth 	31	13:42:20	42.310		1:07.723 
2	20	Patrick Friesacher 	Minardi-Cosworth 	44	13:58:51	37.141		1:04.514 
2	19	Narain Karthikeyan 	Jordan-Toyota 		46	14:00:45	25.190		50.352 
2	18	Tiago Monteiro 		Jordan-Toyota 		48	14:02:48	24.071		48.208 
2	2	Rubens Barrichello 	Ferrari 		49	14:03:06	24.056		49.911 
2	1	Michael Schumacher 	Ferrari 		51	14:05:32	23.615		56.481 
3	21	Christijan Albers 	Minardi-Cosworth 	50	14:06:46	24.413		1:32.136

SC04 · 20 Jun 2005 at 00:06

goreblast said:
The best solution would have been for Michellin to stick with what they said late on saturday that the tyres where good for 10 laps and allow them to change as many times as possible (but they would have to change within 1/2 laps of the 10th lap) you are penalising them only and you still have a race. Dont think even Kimi could be ahead of the Minardis if he had to make 6 tyre stops. Also people are saying about them running out of tyres, well was it not only the left rear that was the problem - just keep changing the one tyre then (they are bound to have other worn tyres) or if they had to be new, change both rears or all 4 (they could have flown more tyres out even).

The problem with supplying more tyres is that its against the rules, the FIA were not going to go against the rules whilst Ferrari were sitting on the fence.

PikeyPriest · 20 Jun 2005 at 00:09

The problem was that there werent tyres to change to. The tyres that they wanted to fly in were deemed not good enough from michelins testings, so they werent going to allow them to be used anyway. Having multiple stops or chicane would have been the only option.

Was the course owners against a chicane? If so, why?

goreblast · 20 Jun 2005 at 00:11

anything they did was against the rules

clv101 · 20 Jun 2005 at 00:32

The rules were followed today but at expense of the event.

There needs to be an overriding rule that says something like the FIA can change any rule at any time to ensure 'the show must go on', 'the show must go on' being defined as something like 3/4 of the grid competing competitively.

The number one priority should be the fans, the sponsors, the manufactures, the host circuit, to safety etc... not to the rules at all costs. What happened today was a victory for bureaucracy but a failure for common sense.

Stellios · 20 Jun 2005 at 01:04

Just watched the highlights as i was out. What a damn joke.....

//Mike · 20 Jun 2005 at 07:26

What highlights? :rolleyes:

goreblast · 20 Jun 2005 at 07:42

Would everyone be giving off as much if it had been Bridgestone and not Michellin - i think not.

goreblast · 20 Jun 2005 at 07:44

The teams could have signed a disclaimer saying that if anything had happened they where completely responsible and nout to do with MIchellin. McLaren for one didnt see any problem with the tyres.

<(Multi)> · 20 Jun 2005 at 08:29

McLaren may not have had a problem, but the fact remains that Michelin could only confirm the tyre may, or may not be able to do 10 - 15 laps.

And lets remember Ralf Schumachers failure was on his first lap out the pits. So are the team managers to gamble with their drivers lives, hoping the tyres remain for roughly 10 - 15 laps (give or take 9-14 laps either way.)

Yes the blame is with Michelin for supplying faulty goods, however the event itself was tanished by the politics of Formula One.

Richard T · 20 Jun 2005 at 08:29

goreblast said:
The teams could have signed a disclaimer saying that if anything had happened they where completely responsible and nout to do with MIchellin. McLaren for one didnt see any problem with the tyres.

Pedro De La Rosa's car had a knackered tyre on Friday so they weren't imune

burns · 20 Jun 2005 at 08:43

goreblast said:
The teams could have signed a disclaimer saying that if anything had happened they where completely responsible and nout to do with MIchellin. McLaren for one didnt see any problem with the tyres.

They could have done, but then if they raced in a car which they knew to be dangerousand it had a blow out(which it most probably would have done from the sounds of things) and bit of the car ended up in the crowd they would have been completely liable.

From a sporting point of veiw I think they did the best thing. Some of the teams had a problem which meant they could not race and as such they did not race. From a spectator point of veiw of course it was utter ****, but you can't just go around changing the way a single race of a championship works IMHO. I would have said the fault lies with michelan.

http://www.fia.com/index_800.html
There're copys of the letter sent betwen the FIA and Michelan in the news section on the FIA site which are quite interesting reading if anyones not seen them already.

The Running Man · 20 Jun 2005 at 08:58

does this stem back to the stupid rule of not having tyre changes at pit stops?

bah

Deathwish · 20 Jun 2005 at 09:22

Nickg said:
does this stem back to the stupid rule of not having tyre changes at pit stops?

bah

Its more to do with the rule of not being able to change the type of tyre after the team have declared it. Also, I think there is a rule that states each team can only have two different types of tyre nominated and they choose from those which to use.

Even if they could change tyres during the race they would still need to change onto the same compound/construction of tyre.

The Running Man · 20 Jun 2005 at 09:25

f1 is just full of rubbish rules which have contrived to ruin the US grand prix/the F1 brand in america for some time perhaps...

Richard T · 20 Jun 2005 at 09:50

Nickg said:
f1 is just full of rubbish rules which have contrived to ruin the US grand prix/the F1 brand in america for some time perhaps...

I agree...lets hope this is the end of the Max and Bernie show

goreblast · 20 Jun 2005 at 09:53

I suggest that everyone head over the FIA website and read the correspondance between Michelin and the FIA. From it you will see that the ball was most certainly in Michelin and their teams court - they had several options under which to race, but chose to be pigheaded and withdraw.

Sadgeek · 20 Jun 2005 at 10:03

I agree that the ball was firmly in Michelin's court, but it was their statement which stopped the teams from racing. No doubt if Michelin had told their runners that the tyre was marginal and up to the teams whether they raced or not, then we would have seen a few more cars.

It is Michelin's statement that stopped their teams from running:

"As a result we reached the conclusion that we will not compete with these tyres in the current configuration of the circuit."

The teams were unwilling passengers in this battle between Michelin and the FIA, and as such, should be penalised appropriately.