2008 Belgian GP - Race 13/18

[gord]

who said he needed to stop?
he needed to lift off and recover himself thats all
your just being silly to defend his crimes

Hamilton is by the side of KR, his front wheel still in-line, he still maintains momentum. This video shows whats happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCEYjNoBYo0

16.7 seconds, Hamilton still with a position on the left, but ultimately trying to slow and get it back in behind the Ferrari to stay on the track. With the speed they had they are covering too much ground to make this possible and he had to use the run off to avoid touching Kimi. Lifting off would not have slowed him enough, because he isnt on the throttle in the middle of that corner.

Do not accuse me of being silly, my arguments use the reality before me.

the rest of your post is just nonsense as you cant seem to accept lewis cutting the chicane kept him with kimi had he not cut the chicane he would not have been close to kimi

It would be unwise to try and discredit my post, allegedly "nonsense" as you are ultimately fighting the visual evidence. This is not something you can beat without being visually impaired, which I have already suggested in order to offer you some lenience before ultimately calling you a troll. In fact, your lack of response to the rest of my own is evidence enough that you are incapable of responding to the actuality of the situation and are therefore erroneous.

 

[TheStig1]

Hamilton is by the side of KR, his front wheel still in-line, he still maintains momentum. This video shows whats happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCEYjNoBYo0

16.7 seconds, Hamilton still with a position on the left, but ultimately trying to slow and get it back in behind the Ferrari to stay on the track. With the speed they had they are covering too much ground to make this possible and he had to use the run off to avoid touching Kimi. Lifting off would not have slowed him enough, because he isnt on the throttle in the middle of that corner.

Do not accuse me of being silly, my arguments use the reality before me.

and the reality is he could have made the corner and lost time but he decided to take to the escape road which cost him no time and let him pass kimi due to cutting the chicane does not matter that he gave kimi it back he used the cut for his own advantage

if it makes you feel better call me a troll just because i dont agree with you quite a novel approach

 

[gord]

and the reality is he could have made the corner

Yes, if Kimi wasnt there. In my reality Kimi is there in a big wide red Ferrari, as strange a concept as that might be to you. KR gives Lewis 2 options, leave the track or hit me.. not exactly a great choice..

Im afraid I have to go play tennis now, but will be back later to continue. I await more humorous fabrications.

 

[TheStig1]

same option lewis gave massa and nelson in germany then?
he could have made the corner no doubt about it he is the messiah

 

[Glaucus]

and the reality is he could have made the corner and lost time but he decided to take to the escape road

\nd your missing the point, he made the corner and had to avoid KR. It was either hit KR or go of the track. if it was a wall there. It would have been hit KR or the wall.

KR also went of track on the straight several times as there was better traction. yet no punishment for him and he did it on purpose.

Why have no other drivers been penalised for using escape roads, grass, run offs. when they have relinquished the position?

same option lewis gave massa and nelson in germany then?
he could have made the corner no doubt about it he is the messiah

he did make the corner and would have gone round it fine, until KR knocked him off. Perfect racing move by both. However the penalty goes against any rules.

 

[Flibster]

if you can read
the rules you stated about leaving the track are under the overtaking section
leaving the track to overtake is the rule he has been punished for

This reminds me of exactly why I left the F1 threads....
Except with more puerile insults and less death threats.

At no point does it mention overtaking - just leaving the confines of the track defined by the 2 white lines. This rule is in 2 places in the regulations. One of which just happens to be in the overtaking section, but there is NO reference to overtaking made in the press release made by the FIA.

If he was punished for overtaking they would have said so to avoid this backlash.

Aaaah sod it. I can't be bothered anymore. Gord, over to you as the voice of reason.

 

[PinkFloyd]

and the reality is he could have made the corner and lost time but he decided to take to the escape road which cost him no time and let him pass kimi due to cutting the chicane does not matter that he gave kimi it back he used the cut for his own advantage

if it makes you feel better call me a troll just because i dont agree with you quite a novel approach

It is amusing how you are ignoring the fact if he tried breaking on a wet curb that is quite high he would likely have lost control and hit Kimi.

Not to mention the advantage he got from cutting, was given straight back to Kimi when Lewis slowed enough for KR to come past.

The whole incident is a mute point anyway, as Lewis outbreaked KR comfortably into La Source from over a cars length (notice a cars length, which is a LARGER distance than Lewis was behind KR coming into the chicane)

 

[Glaucus]

This reminds me of exactly why I left the F1 threads....
Except with more puerile insults and less death threats.

At no point does it mention overtaking - just leaving the confines of the track defined by the 2 white lines. This rule is in 2 places in the regulations. One of which just happens to be in the overtaking section, but there is NO reference to overtaking made in the press release made by the FIA.

If he was punished for overtaking they would have said so to avoid this backlash.

Aaaah sod it. I can't be bothered anymore. Gord, over to you as the voice of reason.

except no one else got done for using run offs. It also says in the FIA records. Leaving the track & GAINING an advantage. he gave the place back so gained nothing.

 

[TheStig1]

At no point does it mention overtaking -

International Sporting Code
CHAPTER IV - CODE OF DRIVING CONDUCT ON CIRCUITS

2. Overtaking

g) The race track alone shall be used by the drivers during the race.

there is a whole section in the rules under the overtaking section

 

[orderoftheflame]

if it makes you feel better call me a troll just because i dont agree with you quite a novel approach

You are a Troll as you continue to prove time and time again.

same option lewis gave massa and nelson in germany then?
he could have made the corner no doubt about it he is the messiah

I'm not sure how you can remotely compare these...

Hamilton was overtaking on wider corners in Germany, as opposed to a tight chicane. Massa and Piquet we're both caught napping.

Watch the replays, you'll see Kimi completely shut the door and force Hamilton off the track. Lewis had a choice to go off the track, or into Kimi.

 

[TheStig1]

so i am a troll because i dont agree with you? mature debating method that is
i feel a bit sorry for you
the hairpin at germany is a wide sweeping corner, ok and you say im trolling? right

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

lol, I know people are angry but seriously... It's like a bunch of bickering old women in here.

 

[Entai]

and the reality is he could have made the corner and lost time but he decided to take to the escape road which cost him no time and let him pass kimi due to cutting the chicane does not matter that he gave kimi it back he used the cut for his own advantage

Yes I agree by cutting the chicane Lewis gained an advantage in speed and momentum over Kimi, (at that point in time) who had to slow for the corner then accelerate back up to speed, where Lewis lifted slightly across the run off so was back up to speed quicker than Kimi, this I believe is the advantage the FIA seem to think Lewis gained.

However and it is a huge HOWEVER, (which is most likely the main point of McLarens appeal against the punshment), Lewis then slowed substantially to let Kimi back in front of him instantly negating any and all advantage gained by cutting the chicane, and keeping speed/momentum.

Also you must see that Lewis did not slipstream Kimi down the straight after the chicane, so negated any advantage from that manouver, and purely outbraked an overly cautious early braking Kimi into the next corner, using the greater skill and speed that Lewis in a McLaren had over Kimi in a Ferrari at that point in the race.

To support the FIA in this argument means that you are telling every F1 race driver they must always deliberately let another car hit them, and knock them out of the race completely, when the other driver decides to turn in against them or decides to push them wide on a corner, rather than to use the run off area. Sounds a bit daft to me .

Finally I would tend to agree with Niki Lauda (see here) than someone who has never driven an F1 car.

 

[TheStig1]

and i would tend to believe kimi than someone who has not driven modern f1

there is no point me even commenting on it no more because people just seem to get nasty no idea why but i have made my opinion on it and believe it was the right decision but probably not a good decision for the sport

 

[SKILL]

so i am a troll because i dont agree with you? mature debating method that is
i feel a bit sorry for you
the hairpin at germany is a wide sweeping corner, ok and you say im trolling? right

Where does his post say 'sweeping',

Both incidents you mentioned Hamilton had the inside racing line, and was ahead by the apex, he then continued the racing line and the other drivers went wide, eg he did exactly what Raikkonen did, a hard but fair maneuver,

After he went wide at spa he blatantly didn't have momentum on kimi due to the cutting of the chicane, as witnessed by the 6km/h deficit at the start/finish line, he then performed a completely seperate outbraking on the inside of Raikkonen,

Quite frankly you are either blind or being a troll, whatever one it is welcome to my ignore list, many years without putting anyone there and 2 in 2 days \o/

 

[el_dazza]

Aaaah sod it. I can't be bothered anymore. Gord, over to you as the voice of reason.

I wouldn't bother mate. Anyone with a brain will realise what crap he's talking and that the punishment was outrageous. My red-tinted glasses are sat on the table for this one.

 

[ChrisD.]

Even a Facebook group now!

http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=24218452261&ref=mf

 

[TheStig1]

Where does his post say 'sweeping',

Both incidents you mentioned Hamilton had the inside racing line, and was ahead by the apex, he then continued the racing line and the other drivers went wide, eg he did exactly what Raikkonen did, a hard but fair maneuver,

After he went wide at spa he blatantly didn't have momentum on kimi due to the cutting of the chicane, as witnessed by the 6km/h deficit at the start/finish line, he then performed a completely seperate outbraking on the inside of Raikkonen,

Quite frankly you are either blind or being a troll, whatever one it is welcome to my ignore list, many years without putting anyone there and 2 in 2 days \o/

he edited it
oh you wont see this though shame that haha im most upset

 

[[ASSE]Hinchy]

I can't be bothered repeating what every single other common sense person in here is saying, but for Hamilton to be penalised for that is beyond a joke. What should be remembered as a fantastic climax to a race is instead tarnished and remembered as a race ruined by a ridiculous decision. Good job FIA....

I'm not a Hamilton fanboy at all. He was given no choice but to leave the track, clearly lifted off to let Raikonnen back ahead. If he hadn't lifted off, there is no way Raikonnen would have caught him as Hamilton apparently had the 'advantage' by coming out of the chicane at a higher speed

Anyway, hopefully common sense will prevail.

Funny how F1 legends can come out and say the decision is a joke and an embarrassment for the sport, but some OcUK members know better. Hell, even a Ferrari team member says it was racing. But no, again we're just fanboys aren't we.

 

[Squark]

Incidentaly - is everyone in the thread aware that it's not the "gaining advantage" that Hamilton has been pulled up for.

The actual, specific rule breach on the FIA's document state he was penalised for breaching:



So he's actually been penalised for leaving the track. Nothing else. These are the 2 rule breaches quoted by the FIA.

But in those rainy conditions at the end of the race everyone was running off the track, Raikkonen himself did prior to crashing gaining lots of momentum, would he have been penalised had he finished?