2008 Belgian GP - Race 13/18

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AcidHell2 said:
Lewis didn't get anything wrong. He was on his gear box and went for an over take. KR forced him off the track. He then gave the place, was clearly of the throttle past the finish line, then over took fair and square. No one was in the wrong apart from the FIA. The mclaren was so much faster than ferrari at that point, he could have easily over taken on the straight and been several car lengths in front. Instead he stayed behind and took him at the corner.
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what he did wrong was using a cut track to line himself up to pass kimi into turn 1 its quite obvious to anyone
you are right he would have taken kimi fairly later that lap so did not need to make a cut of the track to do it which is the whole point
if lewis had lifted in the corner he would no longer have been on kimis gearbox at all thats why the cut track has been punished
 
TheStig1 said:
some people really have no idea what they are talking about lewis should not have been that close he would have lost a lot of time had he not cut the chicane he went for a silly move round the outside and when he got done he decided to cheat the track and take a shortcut and then use that shortcut to make an overtake
the stewards got it right and lewis should have learned from france that cutting the track is not allowed but he will think he is above the rules and people like you will try and defend it
at the end of the day lewis has to obey the rules no matter how arrogant he thinks he can be
you crying about the fia applying the rules is not going to change it lets hope he is a bit more respectful next time round but i doubt it as he will play the victim role once again
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I have only been following F1 since before Damon Hill started driving - so no I know nothing at all

I think , with a lot of others - that it is you who doesnt know what you are talking about

Kimi was given BACK the advantage AND MORE on the straight - and still messed it up by the corner

Of course Ferrari arent arrogant - and loving how they benefit their other driver even though he clearly doesnt deserve it

You just cant stand the red cars being fairly beaten - and so try and twist and turn the rules to suit yourself, when you have been proven wrong several pages ago

TheStig1 said:
what he did wrong was using a cut track to line himself up to pass kimi into turn 1 its quite obvious to anyone
you are right he would have taken kimi fairly later that lap so did not need to make a cut of the track to do it which is the whole point
if lewis had lifted in the corner he would no longer have been on kimis gearbox at all thats why the cut track has been punished
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You have just proven yourself to be a real plonker - if you had watched even a single clip you would know that on the straight KR and LH where running in parallel AFTER the last chicane, so it would be impossible for LH to "use the cut track to line himself up for turn 1" and even after that STILL on the finishing straight LH was completely behind KR so there goes your arguement completely
 
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TheStig1 said:
what he did wrong was using a cut track to line himself up to pass kimi into turn 1 its quite obvious to anyone
you are right he would have taken kimi fairly later that lap so did not need to make a cut of the track to do it which is the whole point
if lewis had lifted in the corner he would no longer have been on kimis gearbox at all thats why the cut track has been punished
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he didn't cut the track to do that, KR clearly squeezes him of. He did not have room to break, as his front wheel would have collided with KR rear wheel. he did the only thing he could and bail. He did not cut the corner because he missed his braking point, or because he was carrying to much speed. it was purely to do with KR squeezing him out (which is fair game). Lewis then gave KR the lead back.
 
There are so many holes in The Stigs arguments that he discredits his opinion severely.

The overtaking manoeuvre into La Source was valid, albeit that video shows Kimi move to the right and then left when defending, which is two defensive moves, but im sure the FIA wont mind that.

Kimi had the option of defending the inside line into La Source, he took it wide to cut back behind Hamilton but put his nose into Hamilton's rear tyre..

You can keep posting your now frankly naive and obtuse comments, but they are ultimately erroneous. Anyone with a modicum of visual ability can see what happened, and it was great racing until the FIA step in to hand the win to Massa.
 
my personal oppinion, the penalty is wrong.
to all these people saying lewis gained momentum/advantage......well he still passed from one side ....behind kimi and then up the other side......so he definatly gave back the position...as its difficult to swap sides with out going round the front or over the top i suppose he could have gone underneath but im sure that would have been frowned upon aswell.
 
TheStig1 said:
list these times others have cut the track and gained a position and got away with it
some people really have no idea what they are talking about lewis should not have been that close he would have lost a lot of time had he not cut the chicane he went for a silly move round the outside and when he got done he decided to cheat the track and take a shortcut and then use that shortcut to make an overtake
the stewards got it right and lewis should have learned from france that cutting the track is not allowed but he will think he is above the rules and people like you will try and defend it
at the end of the day lewis has to obey the rules no matter how arrogant he thinks he can be
you crying about the fia applying the rules is not going to change it lets hope he is a bit more respectful next time round but i doubt it as he will play the victim role once again
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Please use punctuation. Your posts read like a story written by a 7-year-old.
 
bru said:
my personal oppinion, the penalty is wrong.
to all these people saying lewis gained momentum/advantage......well he still passed from one side ....behind kimi and then up the other side......so he definatly gave back the position...as its difficult to swap sides with out going round the front or over the top i suppose he could have gone underneath but im sure that would have been frowned upon aswell.
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FIA rules clearly state no subterranean overtaking allowed!
 
I really enjoyed this race until I found out about this penalty, it has brought a complete farce to what was a great race.
 
I dunno if this has been mentioned, but the biggest Lewis Hamilton fanboy on the planet, the one i hate listening to week in week out, thinks it was a very close call.

James Allan said:
Watching it over and over again you can see what they mean; it’s a very delicately balanced call.
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The most sensible thing James Allan has said, ever imo.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=43872&PO=43872

Allan also mentions he cut the corner in order to avoid going over the grass. Like i mentioned earlier, would this in itself mean he gained an advantage?
 
Allen:

Although he clearly hands back the lead to Kimi as they cross the start/finish line and the timing sheets show you that Kimi clearly crossed the line first, he is on him immediately afterwards.

And this is the nub of the stewards’ argument.
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The italicised part is surely the problem with this argument. Afaik there's nothing in the rules that says you have to wait after giving the place back, or go a certain distance back, or do anything else. Hamilton's car actually crossed behind Kimi's, it wasn't even as if he just let him pull ahead a bit.
 
JUMPURS said:
Allan also mentions he cut the corner in order to avoid going over the grass. Like i mentioned earlier, would this in itself mean he gained an advantage?
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Lots of people miss the braking point and go straight on, these days most of the run offs are tarmac so will they look at every incident in detail to calculate if they maybe had an advantage of a second :confused:

LH decided to cut the corner as the alternative was going over the wet grass, possibly losing control and taking out KR and himself, so IMO it was a good decision to do the safe thing, give back the position and go at it again.
 
mmj_uk said:
Niki Lauda wasn't too impressed with the decision either:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=43875
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From your article you have quoted:

"This is completely wrong: there was no slipstream involved.


"He tried to pass on the left but Kimi moved over, then he passed on the right because he braked later - without any slipstream.


"It's unbelievable how the best driver in yesterday's race makes no mistakes and only gets six points."
 
FrankJH said:
You have just proven yourself to be a real plonker - if you had watched even a single clip you would know that on the straight KR and LH where running in parallel AFTER the last chicane, so it would be impossible for LH to "use the cut track to line himself up for turn 1" and even after that STILL on the finishing straight LH was completely behind KR so there goes your arguement completely
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ah resorting to insults because you cant handle the truth
how about you pause the incident at the moment lewis decides he is too good to use the race track
at that moment had he been fair he would have lifted off and accepted kimi defended his lead very well and lost maybe 3/4 tenths getting himself out of the problem he was in and get back onto the racing line and no longer in any position to draft kimi down to turn 1 as he did
he however decided not to accept that and took a short cut that saved him the lost time from kimi defending and set himself up to make another pass due to cutting the track
if you do not call that an advantage then your just being silly for the sake of it
alonso at suzuka 05 did the same thing as lewis and he got collared so why the big fuss just cause its lewis getting told to stick to the rules
 
^^^
and

What developed yesterday is the biggest mess the sport has ever done.
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"I've always said this is bulls**t, that this is a sport and you have to be neutral, but the decision yesterday makes me believe that everyone is watching Ferrari in a positive way and McLaren in a very negative way
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"So I do not understand this decision, and it's really bad for the sport because people watching will not watch any more because of this stupid decision
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TheStig1 said:
ah resorting to insults because you cant handle the truth
how about you pause the incident at the moment lewis decides he is too good to use the race track
at that moment had he been fair he would have lifted off and accepted kimi defended his lead very well and lost maybe 3/4 tenths getting himself out of the problem he was in and get back onto the racing line
he however decided not to accept that and took a short cut that saved him the lost time from kimi defending and set himself up to make another pass due to cutting the track
if you do not call that an advantage then your just being silly for the sake of it
alonso at suzuka 05 did the same thing as lewis and he got collared so why the big fuss just cause its lewis getting told to stick to the rules
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Are there any parts of this forum where people like you? I've yet to see one.
 
TheStig1 said:
ah resorting to insults because you cant handle the truth
how about you pause the incident at the moment lewis decides he is too good to use the race track
at that moment had he been fair he would have lifted off and accepted kimi defended his lead very well and lost maybe 3/4 tenths getting himself out of the problem he was in and get back onto the racing line and no longer in any position to draft kimi down to turn 1 as he did
he however decided not to accept that and took a short cut that saved him the lost time from kimi defending and set himself up to make another pass due to cutting the track
if you do not call that an advantage then your just being silly for the sake of it
alonso at suzuka 05 did the same thing as lewis and he got collared so why the big fuss just cause its lewis getting told to stick to the rules
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Lewis could not just lift off, he had two options when Kimi squeezed him - go over the grass, and potentially take both cars out, or use the run off. Dozens of cars have taken evasive action across run off areas this year alone (with no penalty).

Lewis did not draft Kimi down to turn one. He was only behind the Ferrari for a fraction of a second.

Also, use punctuation - as said before, it makes your posts very hard to read.
 
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