Soldato
2008 Belgian GP - Race 13/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
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Soldato
I understand that you can't issue a drive through in the last 5 laps, but you can not issue different penalties at different times, because they are not equal penalties.
Maybe they should change the drive-through to become an automatic 10 place grid penalty at the next race. Then it doesn't matter when it happens, everyone gets the same penalty.
Or you go to the other extreme and black flag/exclude anyone. Therefore again the result is the same whenever it happens.
Soldato
So in the last 5 laps, you would black flag someone for cutting a corner, but before that they would get a drive through?? Thought you wanted the same punishment?
OK great idea, do it next race. So in Brazil when Massa cut's a bend 2 laps to go to pass Hamilton to win the WDC but 20 seconds, what will you do about his punishment?? Give him a 10 place penalty in Australia the following season???? When it has won him not only the race but the WDC. Or would you be crying for 25 Seconds to be added to his time then??
Also, what if someone cuts 2 corners? Do you put them back 20 places? Or do you give them 10 place punishment in the next 2 races?? WHat if they cut 5 corners in 2 races.
Haven't thought it through well have you?
I think Massa and his team-mate will have a decent enough chance, but I see it more likely that Hamilton may end up winning a lot of races, in succession, where the Ferrari drivers will be picking up the minor podium places.
The problem with the points arrangement now is that even if a driver wins 5 races in a row, he may actually only be leading the WDC by 10 points, which I think isnt a fair reflection of his domination.
Next year, Hamilton should be razor sharp (just as he is now), but without the erratic behaviour - eg. "Oh boy, there's Alonso, I must make sure he doesnt get ahead of me, even if it means I have to go off the track and ruin my own race" or "Hey, I came into the pits ahead of Kimi and so, I should leave ahead of him. Damn, he's ahead of me, right I'll just pretend his car isnt there then."
I've never underestimated him. Ever. I've observed that he did make mistakes in the first GP of the year (without driver aids), but from then on he has been steady. He cant compete against Hamilton in the wet, but then nobody can. On a dry track though, he is super quick.
Massa is a good driver. Not great. But good. Definitely better than Heikki or Button.
I dont think this is the case.
Its unfair to compare Hamilton's wet weather race speed with anybody elses. Use Heikki's wet-weather speed as a standard and you will see it is in-line with what the Ferrari drivers do.
IMO Hamilton is simply prodigious in wet conditions and nobody can live with him. Even Alonso, last year, couldnt cope with Hamilton's basic wet weather pace. And thats Alonso!
Put Hamilton in a Ferrari, let him get used to the car and in a wet race, he will make the Ferrari sing, just as he does the McLaren.
Soldato
No If you read what I said, anyone who "cuts the corner" at any time should get the same penalty (10 place penalty or black flag).
If you look at it your way what happens at Brazil with your example, Massa wins the race, goes on the podium thinking "I won the championship", only for a few hours later to be told he hasn't.
I don't say my idea works entirely, but neither does the current system if you want consistent punishment.
Soldato
Fantastic!!!
Of course, JRS still thinks the FIA are totally unbiased and are not against McLaren in any way shape or form
Are you actually reading what the **** I type? Honestly?
How many times do you want me to condemn this as being a completely retarded decision by the stewards? 'cause I'll keep doing it over and over again if you like! I mean, it's obvious that the number of ******* times I've done it so far hasn't quite registered....
Soldato
Surely a black flag and a 10 place drop are two different penalties?
So in my Scenareo, Massa is world champion for cutting a corner? In the current situation Massa would lose the WDC, and rightly so, but in yours he would win it and be a cheat.
Also what about if someone cuts a corner twice? or multiple times in multiple races?? Your way just doesn't work.
Heres an Idea, how about if you gain an advantage by cutting a corner, you get a drive through penalty, and if it is in the last 5 laps, you get 25 seconds added onto your time since that is the length of time it takes to drive through the pits?? sounds good to me.
As for consistant punishment, every driver gets the same punishment, every driver knows the rules. Every driver knows a drive through in the last 5 laps is a 25 second penalty. They don't keep it a secret.
Should penalties be changed in football to free kicks? Since it happens in a box 18 yards from goal? Surely a foul should be treated the same ehh??
Soldato
I think we're going to need group therapy and hugs all round after this thread.
/me opens arms
/me opens arms
Soldato
I think the Ferrari is designed with good engine/gearbox with not as good aero/brakes, whereas the Mclaren has good aero/brakes, but not as good engine/gearbox.
Therefore in most cases, they are similar paced, on fast tracks (eg Monza), Ferrari is better, on twisty tracks (eg Germany) Mclaren is better, and in wet conditions Mclaren is better.
Soldato
Surely good aero and brakes would = good on twisty tracks, like ehhh Monaco where Ferrari where gash.
That post seems to contradict itself.
Soldato
Again you have read me wrong, the black flag/10 place penalty is an either or for anytime, not both depending on time of infraction. i.e. you replace both drive-through and 25 second with a black flag, or replace both with a 10 place.
You say the current situation is consistent punishment, but it is only consistent from race to race, not from lap to lap.
What happens if someone cuts the last corner and doesn't come back on till after the finish line, and this happens on the 6th-5th from last lap? Which penalty do they get?
Soldato
Do you only read every other word of my posts
? I said Ferrari has not good aero, therefore Mclaren would be better at twisty tracks including Monaco.
Soldato
So you would rather have seen Lewis Hamilton get a black flag for cutting a corner (losing all his WDC points) than have a 25 second penalty?? That is ridiculous tbh.
IIRC there are no start finish lines that are in the middle of a turn? So they would be punished for the turn they cut.
Again back to football, should we do away with penalty kicks and make them all free kicks? As then it would be consistant around the entire field and not different depending where you are standing.
Soldato
Do you only read every other word of my posts
Ohh i mis-read it lol
The FIA keep quoting the rule that drivers must use the track ONLY. Ok then, why not enforce it? If you put a wheel over the white line bordering the track, you get a drive through penalty. This is the case in athletics, and even in formula one with the white line on the pit lane exit.
At Monaco, the rule is enforced around almost the whole track because it is bordered by walls.
At Monaco, the rule is enforced around almost the whole track because it is bordered by walls.
Soldato
To get consistency, then probably yes. If he is proved to have gained an advantage.
Look at France, the final chicane is close enough to the start/finish line that you could go over the chicane and not come back on until over the line.
This is one time football does not equal F1. Free kicks/penalties are due to locations on the pitch. If we were saying different penalties for cutting different chicanes on a track then fine, but we are not.
We are talking about at which point during the race the infraction happens. If you were to make any fouls within the last five minutes of a match a penalty, then fine, but try and apply that one. Or maybe allow the FA to add a goal after the match has finished for a bad tackle in the last minute.
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