2008 Belgian GP - Race 13/18

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To get consistency, then probably yes. If he is proved to have gained an advantage.

So you would still get the scenario of someone being black flagged after the race and podium, as the Stewards can take 15-20 minutes when investigating, even in race.

Look at France, the final chicane is close enough to the start/finish line that you could go over the chicane and not come back on until over the line.

But the corner you are cutting is before the start finish line yes?? And that is the corner you have cut. And isn't there a wall stopping you from doing that at Magney Cours? Or am i thinking of another track.

This is one time football does not equal F1. Free kicks/penalties are due to locations on the pitch. If we were saying different penalties for cutting different chicanes on a track then fine, but we are not.
We are talking about at which point during the race the infraction happens. If you were to make any fouls within the last five minutes of a match a penalty, then fine, but try and apply that one. Or maybe allow the FA to add a goal after the match has finished for a bad tackle in the last minute.

There is a point of no return though. Imagine black flagging everyone who cut a corner, you would not see any finishers, or nobody would overtake. Again you have not found a solution to the 10 palce penalty if you do it multiple times.

I have seen red and yellow cards handed out post match. Should that not be allowed? Would you rather in the next game the other team got to take a penalty kick?
 
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The FIA keep quoting the rule that drivers must use the track ONLY. Ok then, why not enforce it? If you put a wheel over the white line bordering the track, you get a drive through penalty. This is the case in athletics, and even in formula one with the white line on the pit lane exit.

At Monaco, the rule is enforced around almost the whole track because it is bordered by walls.

Well Alonso got fined for having 1 wheel over the Pit lane at Valencia.

Much like football, tennis etc, the whole car needs to cross the white line and not just 1 wheel. That is how it currently is.
That is why tracks like Monza have speed bumps and remember the bollards? To stop people cutting chicanes.
 
So you would still get the scenario of someone being black flagged after the race and podium, as the Stewards can take 15-20 minutes when investigating, even in race.

So maybe the stewards delay is part of the problem. Football referees have to make split second decisions, but stewards can take 20 minutes.

But the corner you are cutting is before the start finish line yes?? And that is the corner you have cut. And isn't there a wall stopping you from doing that at Magney Cours? Or am i thinking of another track.

It is possible to cut the corner and stay off the track until after the line. You may leave the circuit before the line, but if you don't come back on till after the line, and gain the advantage after, then what?

There is a point of no return though. Imagine black flagging everyone who cut a corner, you would not see any finishers, or nobody would overtake. Again you have not found a solution to the 10 palce penalty if you do it multiple times.

So instead they only penalise some even though the rules say you must stay within the confines of the track. See Spa first corner, at least 5 cars left the track. And don't say they were avoiding incidents, most of them went out there to get a run on other cars.

The 10 place penalty is a possible suggestion, maybe if you are proven to do it more than once you would get black flagged. And it is not like you see many people get multiple drive-throughs in one race for cutting several corners.

I have seen red and yellow cards handed out post match. Should that not be allowed? Would you rather in the next game the other team got to take a penalty kick?

But a red card after the match is like a 10 place grid penalty. It doesn't affect the result of the previous match. As I said, if the FA started adding/removing goals for infringements not dealt with during the game, everyone would be in uproar.
 
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Well Alonso got fined for having 1 wheel over the Pit lane at Valencia.

Much like football, tennis etc, the whole car needs to cross the white line and not just 1 wheel. That is how it currently is.
That is why tracks like Monza have speed bumps and remember the bollards? To stop people cutting chicanes.

I'm pretty sure that you're not allowed to touch the pit lane white line at all.
 
So maybe the stewards delay is part of the problem. Football referees have to make split second decisions, but stewards can take 20 minutes.
But isn't that a good thing? Look at the controversy in Football at the moment with Ref's getting split second decisions wrong.

It is possible to cut the corner and stay off the track until after the line. You may leave the circuit before the line, but if you don't come back on till after the line, and gain the advantage after, then what?
Either way you have cut the initial corner, when you come back is moot tbh.

So instead they only penalise some even though the rules say you must stay within the confines of the track. See Spa first corner, at least 5 cars left the track. And don't say they were avoiding incidents, most of them went out there to get a run on other cars.

The 10 place penalty is a possible suggestion, maybe if you are proven to do it more than once you would get black flagged. And it is not like you see many people get multiple drive-throughs in one race for cutting several corners.
So we go back to two different punishments? People don't get multiple drive throughs because they learn there lesson (unlike hamilton, Spa and France :p) But if you got caught once and you where getting a 10 place penalty in the next race anyway, what incentive is there not to cut more corners?

But a red card after the match is like a 10 place grid penalty. It doesn't affect the result of the previous match. As I said, if the FA started adding/removing goals for infringements not dealt with during the game, everyone would be in uproar.

But a red card after the match doesn't affect the next match either.

I am happy with the system, everyone knows the rules and everyone plays by the same rules.
Bernie Eccleson said it best in Canada when everyone was moaning about the track breaking up and how they need to be careful, he said that everyone has to drive around the same track, so nobody get's an advantage.
The same can said for 5 laps to go rule.
If someone comes up with a better idea which makes sense then i would back it, but until you come up with something where it is the same punishment all the time (like you want, but is impossible) then the current system will have to do.
 
I'm pretty sure that you're not allowed to touch the pit lane white line at all.

Yeah sorry i was talking about 2 different things, i was saying they do penalise for crossing lines when it is right.

But i was also saying the rule for the track is 1 wheel must be on it not 1 wheel over the line.
 
yes very good :o

i am not the one who is intolerant of other opinions i am not the one posting personal abuse

i suggest you take a look in the mirror good sir

Haha, there are very few people here who are tolerant of you're opinions my friend.

Personal abuse? I'm just stating what's obvious. Feel free to fire some my way, I don't get offended on the internet.
 
Haha. All the people on the net saying they are done watching F1 again know full well they will be watching the race at Monza just like the rest of us :D
 
Haha, there are very few people here who are tolerant of you're opinions my friend.

Personal abuse? I'm just stating what's obvious. Feel free to fire some my way, I don't get offended on the internet.

no thanks i respect the forum rules plus wont lower myself to your level
so really stick to the topic and stop trolling thanks so much
 
Raikkonen was ready to pit on last lap

By Jonathan Noble and Pablo Elizalde Thursday, September 11th 2008, 16:28 GMT

World champion Kimi Raikkonen says he was ready to pit for wet weather tyres before crashing out of the Belgian Grand Prix last Sunday.

The Ferrari driver led for most of the race before a downpour with three laps left helped Lewis Hamilton caught up with him and pass him.

The track was so wet that some drivers decided to pit on the last lap in order to put on wet weather rubber. BMW Sauber's Nick Heidfeld pitted with two laps left, a decision that got him onto the podium.

Raikkonen, who was running second when he crashed, said he was ready to pit and reckons he could have won the race if he had not crashed.

"I would have come in, but I never made the last 100 metres," Raikkonen told reporters at Monza. "I was coming in to change the tyres and probably it could have worked out very well but I never got there."

The Finn, who was embroiled in a thrilling battle with Lewis Hamilton, said he did not want to get involved in the controversy surrounding the penalty given to the Briton after the race.

"I think there has been a lot of talk... but I don't really want to get involved in the whole thing," Raikkonen said.

"I was a part of the thing here, but everyone knows the rules, there is always action taken if you do something wrong and this time that was the decision they made in the end.

"Sometimes it is hard to say if it is right or wrong but I don't want to get involved in the whole thing. Definitely everybody has two different views of the whole thing, some like it, some don't. That is life."

He added: "There are some rules, the FIA knows about it, but I am not the guy who makes the decisions. That is for the guys who made the decision. I didn't get any advantage but that was my fault in the end. I wanted to win, it didn't help me, but that is racing and that is rules."

Raikkonen seemed to be much slower than Hamilton when the track was wet during the Spa race, and the pair made contact a couple of times during their fight.

Their difference in speed nearly caused a crash between them, something that led Hamilton to say on Thursday that Raikkonen was driving too slowly.

"That is how he drives," he said. "If you don't have the balls to brake late then that is your problem! At the end of the day, in those situations it is the driver who can feel the grip more and put the car more on the edge. And I know I am great in those conditions.

"I felt the grip more than him, I knew where to place my car and I did place it in different positions to him and I found the grip."

Raikkonen, however, was unfazed by Hamilton's comments.

"I don't mind that. Like I said he has his own opinion on anything, but that is not what happened at the first corner. It is more about what happens when you cut a chicane and get an advantage or not.

"If you put the concrete wall there you could never come there in the first place, it is more about that than what happened at the first corner."

The world champion also made it clear he intends to keep fighting for the title, and suggested he won't play a supporting role to teammate Felipe Massa until he has no mathematical chance.

"I know what the team expects from us and like I said as long as I have any chance and are in the points I will keep trying, and if it happens and I don't have any chance then it is a different story.

"I don't see it is up to me - we race as hard as we can both of us and we see what happens at the end of the season."

wonder if he would have won had he made it the pits for a change of tyres
strange that massa never pitted if they were planning to pit kimi though?
 
Haha. All the people on the net saying they are done watching F1 again know full well they will be watching the race at Monza just like the rest of us :D

Wanna bet?

I'm going to watch Singapore, simply for the novelty value of it being a new track (though after Valencia I'm not honestly certain why....) but I'm really not sure that I'll be watching Monza. And that'll be the first Italian GP I didn't watch since AFAIK since 1988. I may even have watched one or two before that, though I don't remember doing so on account of being fairly young at the time - that said, I'm not even that sure what I had for breakfast this morning so my memory can be counted as somewhat suspect....;)

Regardless - the point is that I really just don't know if I'm going to watch the race this weekend. Spa left a very bad taste in my mouth - after such good racing (by modern F1 standards), for the weekend to end the way it did....ugh. And even after proclaiming just how cruddy I think the whole thing was, sunama still posts that snarky ******* comment! Bugger it. Even if, by some miracle, I was to watch the race I'm not certain it's worth posting in F1 threads on here any more. You lot obviously aren't reading what I type, so it's a waste of bloody effort.
 
You lot obviously aren't reading what I type, so it's a waste of bloody effort.

I think yours are one of few peoples posts I actually bother to read, tbh. You, sunama, flibster and RP make quality posts 99% of the time, most of the rest of the threads are Ferrari and McLaren fans at each others throats.

I might support RBR next year. :p
 
I think yours are one of few peoples posts I actually bother to read, tbh. You, sunama, flibster and RP make quality posts 99% of the time, most of the rest of the threads are Ferrari and McLaren fans at each others throats.

People still read the garbage I type?

Damn, must try harder. ;)

I might support RBR next year. :p


The Toro Rosso B team? Always good to support the underdogs. :D
 
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