2008 Chinese GP - Race 17/18

Sadgeek · 19 Oct 2008 at 12:44

Smartie pants

Thanks

TheStig1 · 19 Oct 2008 at 12:50

Dennis has said he will be happy with a Ferrari 1-2 in Brazil as long as Lewis wins the title, will suit me too, but seems a bit of a slap in the face for the whole team.

NathanE · 19 Oct 2008 at 12:55

Ron just wants to retire already

PinkFloyd · 19 Oct 2008 at 12:57

NathanE said:
Otherwise everyone that hadn't used theirs yet would just use it for the last race...

Can't see the problem with doing that really....

NathanE · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:00

PinkFloyd said:
Can't see the problem with doing that really....

I know me neither really. It should be like a "reward" for the fact that you've not had to use it in the rest of the season. Seems almost unfair really that those drivers which haven't had to use it sort of get punished in the last race for it...

NathanE · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:03

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71613

Q. Is it a big concern that McLaren could be the fastest car at the end of the season?

SD: To be honest, no, because one week ago it was not the case. Two weeks ago, it was not the case. We need to understand why there was this kind of changing performance side... the performance was the position, so we need to make a careful analysis to understand exactly the reason why we lost performance, because if you look today, this weekend, we were slower, the others were more or less consistent with their pace or their expected pace, so we were the ones that were not so strong to be honest.

Hmm Stefano seems convinced the Ferrari was faster in Fuji :confused:

ps3ud0 · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:08

TheStig1 said:
Dennis has said he will be happy with a Ferrari 1-2 in Brazil as long as Lewis wins the title, will suit me too, but seems a bit of a slap in the face for the whole team.

Surely losing out on the CWC is a big blow? I thought that was really the most important one to get for the team - especially considering the benefits the higher up the CWC you are...

ps3ud0 :cool:

Vertigo · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:11

NathanE said:
There's a rule which prevents the joker engine card being played for the last race.

Otherwise everyone that hadn't used theirs yet would just use it for the last race...

And what's wrong with that? More insane regulations from the FIA - if you've been reliable enough to not use your free engine change all year, why on earth shouldn't you be able to use it at the last race?

NathanE · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:12

I don't think it would be a big blow. They've known most of the year that they would probably not win the WCC because in order to do that you really need to have 2 very consistent drivers and Heikki unfortunately hasn't delivered that this season. He just seems to suffer from terrible bad luck in any race where he has a good chance to score some points.

ps3ud0 · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:18

Why keep him in the team then? Each team starts the season not hoping that one of their drivers wins the WDC but if theyll win the CWC - its infinitely more important to them and attracts more benefits (transporting costs, pit garage size etc...). Its the reason why the teams at the lower end fight so bitterly for the remaining points as it means money in the bank...

ps3ud0 :cool:

sunama · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:20

Cavallino said:
I think the difference this season is the driver who could potentially be in that 5th place is no longer there (Alonso). And even if it is occupied by Heikki, it wont be for long since Im sure he will move over no probs.

I'm not sure if 1 race will be enough for Alonso to overhaul Heikki in the WDC. Alonso is in a different league though.

A lot of people make excuses for Heikki. The fact remains that in the entire GP field, I think Hamilton is furthest ahead of his team mate. I think the next best driver is Alonso, who is ahead of Piquet.

Heikki really doesnt deserve to be in the McLaren. They talked a lot about the role he will play in helping Hamilton. His problem is that he cant even get close to his team mate or the Ferraris. He just isnt fast or consistent enough.

It begs belief that McLaren would re-sign Heikki bearing in mind that Hamilton is leading the title race, yet Heikki cant do anything to help McLaren secure the WCC, which is what the job of the No.2 driver is.

The only thing that shocked me more than the re-signing of Heikki, is the re-signing of Kimi - what on Earth are Ferrari thinking? You have arguably the best driver in F1, pleading to join Ferrari. He is even saying that he will help Massa win the title, if he gets the chance. Alonso is obviously at the top of his game, as we are seeing. Why snub him, in favour of Kimi?

FrankJH said:
IF Massa is able to win (which by today's showing he isnt)

This was a single race. The last 2 races, Massa has been strong. In Brazil, I predict Massa will be the man to beat. I know that Hamilton said that McLaren will be stronger in Brazil than they were here, but I disagree. We shall just have to wait and see.

sunama · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:21

It was a text book performance by Hamilton, which was great for his confidence. No surprises. Fastest lap, pole position and race win. Total dominance.

NathanE · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:21

Coming 2nd in the WCC is not a big blow. Being disqualified from the WCC is a big blow. McLaren will get a very large amount of prize money although yes not as much as Ferrari. Their paddock space next year will be huge, once again.

sunama · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:24

NathanE said:
He just seems to suffer from terrible bad luck in any race where he has a good chance to score some points.

It has nothing to do with luck. In today's race, he had bad luck, but even then, he would only have finished 5th and he was seriously slower than Hamilton during most parts of the race. This is quite normal for Heikki though. The speed differential between Hamilton and Heikki is probably the biggest between any 2 team-mates in F1, right now.

Pseudo calls him average. I call him below average. I would much rather have Barrichello as my No.2 driver as he generally always brings the car home and doesnt complain. He did a great job as MS's No.2 and he could do the same for Hamilton.

Heikki brings nothing to the table.

Cavallino · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:28

sunama said:
I'm not sure if 1 race will be enough for Alonso to overhaul Heikki in the WDC. Alonso is in a different league though.

I was refering to Hamiltons team mate last year vs this year.
I.e. Alonso was Hamiltons team mate and would certainly not make way for Hamilton had he been his team mate this year, even if it meant that Alonso moving over and giving his position to Hamilton would make him the champion.
Whereas Heikki would.

Cavallino · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:30

sunama said:
The speed differential between Hamilton and Heikki is probably the biggest between any 2 team-mates in F1, right now.

Nah. Its Alonso/Piquet for me.

In addition, Alonso is the only driver who just literally wiped the floor with his team mate in qualifying (I think its 17 Vs 0 in Alonso's favour). Surely theres an imminent record there perhaps?

I actually think that Heikki is the perfect team for Hamilton, but not for the team. The majority of points scored this season at Mclaren are thanks to Hamilton (Heikki scored nearly only half the points Hamilotn has), whereas Massa/Raikkonen are fairly even-ish.

ps3ud0 · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:36

Cavallino said:
I was refering to Hamiltons team mate last year vs this year.
I.e. Alonso was Hamiltons team mate and would certainly not make way for Hamilton had he been his team mate this year, even if it meant that Alonso moving over and giving his position to Hamilton would make him the champion.
Whereas Heikki would.

P.S. I dont think no one noticed but you mentioned Alonso in your 4 previously, so LH would always come 5th as Heikki would gift him the place this year - the same thing would have happened last year, but Alonso wouldnt give up the place under your thought-trial, still leaving LH in 5th...

If we keep it quiet no one will notice

Hamiltons Mum is the word

ps3ud0

NathanE · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:36

I think Heikki has had a difficult year. He admitted that himself the other day. And was perhaps the grumpiest I've seen him after the China qually when interviewed by ITV.

I hope he will improve next year.

ps3ud0 · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:40

NathanE said:
Coming 2nd in the WCC is not a big blow. Being disqualified from the WCC is a big blow. McLaren will get a very large amount of prize money although yes not as much as Ferrari. Their paddock space next year will be huge, once again.

If you put it like that...

...damn

But McLaren will still be miffed in not winning the CWC for probably at least a decade now - considering how reliable the car is and how fast its been.

sunama said:
It has nothing to do with luck. In today's race, he had bad luck, but even then, he would only have finished 5th and he was seriously slower than Hamilton during most parts of the race. This is quite normal for Heikki though. The speed differential between Hamilton and Heikki is probably the biggest between any 2 team-mates in F1, right now.

Pseudo calls him average. I call him below average. I would much rather have Barrichello as my No.2 driver as he generally always brings the car home and doesnt complain. He did a great job as MS's No.2 and he could do the same for Hamilton.

Heikki brings nothing to the table.

I have to disagree, Heikkis scored a good amount of points and yes his driving/race performances have been below average, but for the team hes been average.

The % points differential between Heikki and Lewis is much smaller than Alonso and Piquet - Alonso definitely more outshone his team-mate...

ps3ud0 :cool:

NathanE · 19 Oct 2008 at 13:43

There is more money in it for them with LH winning. Hence that's why Ron Dennis has said that's all he really cares about now.

LH is worth a stupid amount of money in terms of sponsorship. More than what they'd get from winning the WCC versus coming 2nd.