2008 German GP - Race 10/18

SKILL · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:47

Cavallino said:
Yes but whats the difference between then and now then?
Nothing. The Number 2 driver moving over for the number 1 driver at the last stages of the race.

Hamilton may have passed Kova anyway, but thats not the point Im trying to make.

To be fair to McLaren, in this situation Hamilton was comfortably faster than Kovy, if they didn't give team orders Hamilton probably still would've got past but there is much more risk to the car,

On the other hand, iirc, in Austria Barrichello wasn't any slower than Schumacher, and was in the lead by virtue of having driven a better race,

So what was different? pretty much everything.

Cavallino · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:48

Flibster said:
It was likely that there would be team orders, but who is to say that Hekki didn't move over on his own decision. Hamilton wasn't ready for him to slow down there.

Brundle commented that Ron was on the Radio to Kovalainnen and couple of seconds later, Kova moves over... cooincidence?

Team orders... moving over... whatever you like to call it. It was no different to Austria with Ferrari.

And the only reason why the crowd were not booing here is because 3/4 of the crowd are probably Mclaren Mercedes employees and were paid to be there for the weekend probably

FrankJH · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:48

What I hate about team orders is when one team mess up one drivers race to hold up other cometitors while the other driver steams ahead, or when the slower driver is given the lead of the two drivers because of championship position

SC04 · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:49

Sabotaj said:
Awesome race for Piquet compared to his team mate Alonso. Lewis raced really well and dug in well to get back into 1st place.

If you wasn't following the race all the way through, Martin Brundle made it very easy to understand why Piquet got a good track position.

Slam62 · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:49

team orders are a lot different to race fixing

Cavallino · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:49

SKILL said:
To be fair to McLaren, in this situation Hamilton was comfortably faster than Kovy, if they didn't give team orders Hamilton probably still would've got past but there is much more risk to the car,

On the other hand, iirc, in Austria Barrichello wasn't any slower than Schumacher, and was in the lead by virtue of having driven a better race,

So what was different? pretty much everything.

Team orders are still team orders. The team made a decision in some shape or form to give their other driver an advantage.

Both drivers in the team can mathematically still win the championship still.

FrankJH · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:50

SC04 said:
I find it funny you bother watching, with so little knowledge whats going on. Dont take Alonso too personally, will you

Ive watched F1 for nigh on 15 years - I know plenty thank you very much

Why cant I dislike one particularly arogant driver who thinks he is god's gift

SC04 · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:51

Cavallino said:
Brundle commented that Ron was on the Radio to Kovalainnen and couple of seconds later, Kova moves over... cooincidence?

Team orders... moving over... whatever you like to call it. It was no different to Austria with Ferrari.

And the only reason why the crowd were not booing here is because 3/4 of the crowd are probably Mclaren Mercedes employees and were paid to be there for the weekend probably

mate calm down, as RPStewart says the situation was vastly different. Kova was slower and it was blatantly obvious to anyone used to watching racing that Lewis was going to get by, and at least it was partly disguised.

sunama · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:51

rpstewart said:
In Austria Barichello was significantly faster than MS, he was told to sacrifice his maiden GP win for someone who didn't deserve to win the race.

Barrichello wasnt significantly faster. In fact, after the full race distance (bar, a few metres), Barrichello was only a few metres ahead of MS. He then lifted off, allowing MS to take the win, as they approached the finish line. The key thing here was that he lifted off, just as Heikki did.

In saying this, Hamilton was so much faster than Heikki, he wouldve gone past him, on merit, very quickly.

This is the first dry race, in a long time, where Ive seen Hamilton really hammer the opposition. Impressive stuff.

I think Hamilton is showing that he may be the man to beat over the next few years.

To suggest that Button would be capable of driving as fast as Hamilton (required to win the WDC), in an identical car, is laughable. Button is a journeyman and it doesnt matter how fit he is - fitness is not the be all and end all, to be fast in F1. Senna wasnt particularly fit, but we all know how quick he was. Same with Mansell. And I'm guessing here, but Kimi I dont think takes his fitness too seriously, he likes to booze and he is the current WDC.

Stormrider · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:52

ah - cut off the press conference - on to itv website then

Mr_White · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:52

conference at http://www.itv-f1.com/VideoLive.aspx

dalin80 · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:52

Cavallino said:
Im actually a BMW fan...

canada says hello.

SC04 · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:53

FrankJH said:
Ive watched F1 for nigh on 15 years - I know plenty thank you very much

Why cant I dislike one particularly arogant driver who thinks he is god's gift

You havnt met Alonso then. Explain why Piquet got where he was with your 15 years knowledge then?

sunama · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:53

FrankJH said:
Why cant I dislike one particularly arogant driver who thinks he is god's gift

Alonso may believe that he is Gods gift. However, all the top line drivers, have also had this unshakeable belief in their own ability - Senna, Mansell, Prost, Alonso, MS and now Hamilton.

If you dont believe you are the best, then you probably wont be.

FrankJH · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:54

Stormrider said:
ah - cut off the press conference - on to itv website then

that was ridiculous - schedule obviously has to be kept

sunama said:
Alonso may believe that he is Gods gift. However, all the top line drivers, have also had this unshakeable belief in their own ability - Senna, Mansell, Prost, Alonso, MS and now Hamilton.

If you dont believe you are the best, then you probably wont be.

I realise that - some of them, like Mansell, Prost, Senna dont have to shout about it, they just do it on the track, Hamilton is exactly the same he leaves his talking to the track - unlike Alonso

Its how its shown that makes the difference, and how Alonso appears everytime he talks just winds me up all the time

Cavallino · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:54

dalin80 said:
canada says hello.

Oh come on did you honestly believe that?

My Nick is Cavallino (The name of the Ferrari horse

)

SKILL · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:54

Cavallino said:
Team orders are still team orders. The team made a decision in some shape or form to give their other driver an advantage.

Both drivers in the team can mathematically still win the championship still.

It's not about the championship, it's about this race, kovy couldn't have won, hamilton could've.

imo the big uproar about Ferrari was because the better driver on that day didn't win the race, because the team didn't allow him to. This situation is completely different to that, the better driver won the race, as it should be, and tbh as it would've been whether Kovy let him past or not, he was more than quick enough to overtake kovy properly anyway...

Kudos to Piquet though, bit lucky with the safety car but to be easily keeping massa at bay at the end of the race in a renault, especially good as it makes Alonso look ordinary

Flibster · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:55

Cavallino said:
Brundle commented that Ron was on the Radio to Kovalainnen and couple of seconds later, Kova moves over... cooincidence?

Funnyh, the button he was pressing said Pit Wall on it...

Cavallino said:
Team orders... moving over... whatever you like to call it. It was no different to Austria with Ferrari.

Max? That you?

There was a lot different. As rpstewart said further up. Gifting the win to Hekki would have been wrong.

So the number of time that Williams have asked one driver to move over is wrong then? What about giving one driver a better car than the other then? Obviously Ferrari are sabotaging Raikkonen's championship. His car was dreadful.

Wizzfizz · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:55

Cavallino said:
Oh absolutely. Im not saying its right either

But its double standards.

When it didnt serve Brundle or Allens purposes, they complained about it back in Austria...

Now it has served their purposes for the win by Hamilton... they turn a blind eye to it...

Poor commentators... and Im very glad that F1 will be going to BBC.

Walker and Brundle went ape back in '98 at the Autrailian race when Couldthard slowed down and let Hakkinen take the lead. David Coulthard and the McLaren team were criticized heavily then.

Don't be expecting commentry to be any different when it moves to BBC1.

Will_3rd · 20 Jul 2008 at 14:58

hmmm anyone speak Portuguese?