2008 German GP - Race 10/18

And further more, it shows that Mclaren have unofficially adopted a number 1 driver...

They adopted this stance the moment they decided to let Alonso go. They knew that no other driver in F1 would be able to outscore Hamilton (in a McLaren car/team that Hamilton is familar with). At this point they decided to use their No.1 driver to win the WDC and the 2nd driver to win the Constructors title, which is how it has traditionally always been done.

The problem is that a lot of the people on this forum need to see this in front of their own eyes before they believe it. Well, now McLaren have showed their hand. TBH, this is the correct direction to go in, if they want to win the WDC. They couldve chosen a better No.2 driver though.

If they wanted to have 2 No.1 drivers, then there would be no point in getting rid of Alonso, as he was doing a fantastic job and bringing in a huge amount of points.
 
They adopted this stance the moment they decided to let Alonso go. They knew that no other driver in F1 would be able to outscore Hamilton (in a McLaren car/team that Hamilton is familar with). At this point they decided to use their No.1 driver to win the WDC and the 2nd driver to win the Constructors title, which is how it has traditionally always been done.

The problem is that a lot of the people on this forum need to see this in front of their own eyes before they believe it. Well, now McLaren have showed their hand. TBH, this is the correct direction to go in, if they want to win the WDC. They couldve chosen a better No.2 driver though.

If they wanted to have 2 No.1 drivers, then there would be no point in getting rid of Alonso, as he was doing a fantastic job and bringing in a huge amount of points.

Absolutely agree with you. Infact I banged on about this last year and said that had Mclaren elected to designate a number 1 driver, they would've had a drivers WC for 2007.

As you say... Mclaren has now shown their hand.

But one thing that troubles me, Kovalainnen wasnt their number 1 choice.
I think there were 2 other drivers (better drivers) who were up for that seat but both drivers declined the seat (due to commitments with their respective teams).

To me this does not necessarily clearly indicate that Mclaren want to adopt a 1st driver/2nd driver strategy. What do you think sunama?
 
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...Kovalainnen wasnt their number 1 choice.
I think there were 2 other drivers (better drivers) who were up for that seat but both drivers declined the seat (due to commitments with their respective teams).

I know that Rosberg was one of the contenders, who was the other?

To me this does not necessarily clearly indicate that Mclaren want to adopt a 1st driver/2nd driver strategy. What do you think sunama?

A lot of it depends on how confident they were/are in the ability of Hamilton. If they thought/think that Hamilton can do what MS did for Ferrari and Bennetton and what Alonso did for Renault, then they can use that strategy, as it is a tried and tested method. I think the decision was made when Hamilton was able to match Alonso's points total.

IMO, it was/is the right way to go, however, from a selfish/entertainment point of view, it wouldve been great to see Hamilton and Alonso, in the same car, driving hard against eachother. Had Alonso stayed, there is a good possibililty that we would've seen some of the all-time greatest drives, from the 2 of them, this season. We might also have seen the McLaren further ahead, in terms of development.
 
Brundle commented that Ron was on the Radio to Kovalainnen and couple of seconds later, Kova moves over... cooincidence?
Non sequitir. Just because he was on the radio doesn't mean he told Keikki to move aside. He probably just reiterated the situation to him, letting him know Lewis was vastly faster and then let him decide what to do. All of this will have been worked out beforehand before closed doors so that they drivers know what to do in such situations and McLaren don't have to "tell" them to do anything over the radio.
Team orders... moving over... whatever you like to call it. It was no different to Austria with Ferrari.
Seriously, get a grip! Comparing today, where Heikki moved aside for a vastly faster Lewis, with Barrichello literally letting Schumacher win at the last corner despite having out-driven him all race, is offensive tbh.

You need to chill out and get some perspective tbh. You're making gross assumptions about what was said to Kovalainen, making comparisons with Austria 2002 which are frankly insulting to Hamilton, claiming 75% of the crowd were Mercedes employees and even having a go at Brudle who's forgotten more about F1 than you'll ever know :rolleyes:
 
If I may have my quick rant - despite Lewis overcoming the problems, I'm getting pretty sick and tired of safety cars altering the outcome of races this year. Something needs to be done and soon. F1 is supposed to be a meritocracy, not a crap-shoot where your entire afternoon can be turned upside down because someone else decided to bin their car and a safety car was required.
 
In my mind, the only driver who is capable of beating Hamilton, over the course of a full season is Alonso. All other drivers would get demolished, just as we are seeing with Heikki (Hamilton has more than doubled Heikki's points total). Granted, that Heikki isnt a great driver, but he isnt exactly crap either.

Last year, after he got his head sorted out and understood that he would not be given preferential treatment and that he was not liked by most of the team, he outscored Hamilton (in the 2nd half of the season). I think Alonso was shocked that he was driving alongside a rookie who was actually able to match his own pace - something that took half a season for him to get over.

Alonso is as good as he is ever going to be - and yet seeing as Hamilton hasnt even competed in 30 races, he is still getting better in tyre use and general racing ability.

You theory about outscoring is mainly factored on the last two races, one a rookie mistake with well worn tyres while leading, the other with a machanical failure - not particularly conclusive imo

Even if your theory was ever going to happen (which I highly doubt) Hamilton would come out on top in an equally structured team
 
You need to chill out and get some perspective tbh. You're making gross assumptions about what was said to Kovalainen, making comparisons with Austria 2002 which are frankly insulting to Hamilton, claiming 75% of the crowd were Mercedes employees and even having a go at Brudle who's forgotten more about F1 than you'll ever know :rolleyes:


Er... ok. :cool:
 
If I may have my quick rant - despite Lewis overcoming the problems, I'm getting pretty sick and tired of safety cars altering the outcome of races this year. Something needs to be done and soon. F1 is supposed to be a meritocracy, not a crap-shoot where your entire afternoon can be turned upside down because someone else decided to bin their car and a safety car was required.

Agreed.

Had it not been for the SC, results would be very different for Canada and Monaco, its a shame that factors outside the hands of the drivers (weather, SC etc) have to impinge on driver style and quality.

Despite the SC, Hamilton was able to more than lay the smack down. So credit to him for that (all the while being punished for the teams poor decision not to pit him).
 
That was the season where Williams battled McLaren and Williams were coming back hard at McLaren. Mansell was in his element, too, as in my opinion, in 1991 - 1993, he was the best driver on the planet, so if you like to see Brits dominate, those years are great.

I enjoyed '91 and '92, simply for Mansell vs Senna. But 1993 is probably my favourite of that era. When 22 drivers all score at least 1 point, 13 teams line up on the grid, 35 different drivers race at least once, and the rules allow for properly clever technology rather than just throwing wings on until the car sticks to the road....

And the engines. F1 really lost something when they made everyone go to V10s and then V8s. When you've got V8s, V10s and V12s on the same grid, it just sounds so much better.

Alright, so the title race didn't end up that close. And only four drivers won all year, with Schumacher the only one not from the Williams or McLaren camp. But it produced some great racing - including Senna doing his near-legendary first lap at Donington, which is part of the reason why Senna is Senna and everyone else since....isn't.

And its good to see that JRS is acknowledging that Hamilton really is that good. Though you still believe that Hamilton isnt in the same class as Senna - something that I totally disagree with. In fact, Hamilton is proving that he is the best wet weather driver (which Senna was) and is also terrifically fast in the dry. I would argue that Hamilton is an evolution of Senna's ability.

I'm not sure where this thing has appeared from.

Hamilton is a great driver. No, scratch that - he's got the potential to be one of the greats. But his fan-club are annoying beyond belief, the jury's out on whether or not he still over-drives at times, and as a human being.....well, as I said before - he's not Kyle Busch, and that's something. A small something, but there nonetheless.

Right, what's next?

oh dear we are feeling grumpy

Not at all. If I was grumpy on a Sunday, I wouldn't be posting on an internet forum. I'd be down the pub, getting not-so-grumpy.

JRS can't enjoy Formula 1, it's just not in him.

Oh dear.

I'm not sure what to do here, Memphis. Because your statement is just...well.....more wrong than Bart Sibrel's brain.

Here goes.

I can enjoy modern F1. Hell, there were many times last year that I distinctly remember being excited by and enjoying. But is everyone on here honestly saying that this year has been a vintage one as far as the on-track action goes? Really? Because if you are.....well, as I've said before - you're easily pleased.

Next year has serious potential, with the changes to the rule-book. Obviously I'd rather that they went a bit further and made F1 the true pinnacle of motorsport again, but I'll settle for slick tyres to be honest. And I'm still yet to hear a credible argument for keeping refuelling in F1, especially given that the FIA are going on a 'green' bent with this KERS.

Aaaaaaaaaanyway.....from earlier:

I'm going to go watch an old race now ('91 Italian GP). Might as well watch some pretty cars today!

Mansell won the '91 Italian GP. Senna second, Prost third. And the race was just as fun as the last time I saw it :)
 
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Great race, and this race shows that modern F1 can produce entertaining overtaking. Interesting also to see a lot of the drivers fighting with the cars showing that the loss of TC can be pretty pronounced (and not just in the wet). Facinating to watch the in-car footage of Alonso fighting the rear of the car like that.

Oh, I (somehow) managed to get Hamiltons autograph at Goodwood last weekend, any idea what that would worth on eBay?! ;)
 
Great race, and this race shows that modern F1 can produce entertaining overtaking. Interesting also to see a lot of the drivers fighting with the cars showing that the loss of TC can be pretty pronounced (and not just in the wet). Facinating to watch the in-car footage of Alonso fighting the rear of the car like that.

Oh, I (somehow) managed to get Hamiltons autograph at Goodwood last weekend, any idea what that would worth on eBay?! ;)

Sell it now!

Cause by the end of the seaon it will be worth nothing :D

(Oooh Im gonna get it now arent I :D)

Hehe seriously, hang onto that bad boy, no matter what Hamilton does now, hes on the way to legendary stardom.
 
not sure which I prefer - the fighting or the love in :p

Make love (in every possible sense of the term) not war ;)

I'll tell you what guys - there is no possible way that I'll get any hassle if I say the next race is boring. Hungary so rarely produces decent action these days. '89 was fun, because Mansell was on one of his charges. '90 was fun, because Boutsen (of all people) was having to hold off Senna (of all people). But lately it's taken odd race strategy ('98) or the weather ('06) to make for a decent spectacle.

Even the most rabid of fans of modern F1 cannot possibly say that the Hungaroring is a very exciting track :)
 
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