2008 German GP - Race 10/18

Not all drivers wouldve pannicked. I'm pretty damn sure that Prost, for example would not have pannicked. MS - I think he wouldve kept a cool head, as would've Alonso. .

MS has a whole history of choking when the title comes down to the wire.

On another topic I'm starting to worry that kimi is actually going to walk away. With the developement as it is there are only two teams to be in Ferrari or a Mclaren.

I see him as the only driver with half a chance to beat a one horse team of mclaren. Its kinda weird how both teams have switched. Mclaren now are 100% Hamilton and the other driver will always be a distant back up.

Ferrari are backing two drivers and losing points as a result. If kimi walks away and ferrari keep letting the drivers win half the races each Hamilton is about to go through a really easy spell of titles.

Even if ferrari do go for the next best thing in alonso I dont think it will be enough to stop a team that backs one driver.

I really wish they would now let the teams do a few years developement on the engine to atleast give the teams a chance to make some ground up.
 
the KERS system is used to turn kinetic energy (from braking) into electrical energy which is stored in a battaery and can be used to power the car's subsystems. More info here.

IIRC BMW are the first to market this technology on their own road cars with the EfficientDynamics models.

Many car makers have dabbled with it though, mclaren had KERS about 10 years ago before the FIA said no to it.
 
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On another topic I'm starting to worry that kimi is actually going to walk away. With the developement as it is there are only two teams to be in Ferrari or a Mclaren .

Potentially BMW - but unlikely they will pay Kimi's retainer if they as good next year

Otherwise I would agree with you


I see him as the only driver with half a chance to beat a one horse team of mclaren. .

Personallly think any 1/2 decent driver in either Ferrari or McLaren when supported singularly would be able to compete with the "other team"

% between the top two teams is so small (unless there are really hot or really wet conditions or one team has an off weekend) that it comes down to an individual drivers preference or a quirk in the race.

Its kinda weird how both teams have switched. Mclaren now are 100% Hamilton and the other driver will always be a distant back up.

It does indeed look like both teams have switched in this respect (although whether thats by design or not is another matter)

I actually suspect that Massa was very much 2nd fiddle at the beginning of the year (and why shouldnt he be after Kimi is WC) and possibly McLaren where hoping for Kovi to be more equal to LH than has actually happened.

It certainly doesnt suit McLaren now at this stage of the championship to back Kovi, and as for Ferrari both drivers could put up a 1/2 convincing arguement to be backed fully for the rest of the season, admittedly Kimi could and possibly should be ahead of Massa because of Canada (and potentially Monaco) but he isnt - who would you chose if you were Montezemelo (could never spell his name) - edit think I got it right for once :)


Even if ferrari do go for the next best thing in alonso I dont think it will be enough to stop a team that backs one driver.

I really wish they would now let the teams do a few years developement on the engine to atleast give the teams a chance to make some ground up.

Im not going to comment again on Alonso :D

It may not be engine developement thats needed - surely more likely aero/chasis design along with gear box/electronics (just a guess though)

For example Honda in the last year has had one of the fastest engines in the pit lane (I seem to recall reading somewhere) but its the chassis and everything else causing them to be at the back of the grid most races

edit - I wish the teams HAD to be teams and couldnt just focus on one driver, its practically impossible to police and will never happen but while the drivers are all interested in the personal prize of a race win or WDC - I would be overjoyed if every aspect of team orders could be abolished until its mathmatically impossible for the 2nd driver to win the WDC each season , just too many "code words" or ways round it to make anything really work
 
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Well if you (I dont mean you personally (:) are going to cheat as MS did then there is no point in the discussion at all - the whole point is to be within the rules

There is every point to a discussion. MS did what he did and got away with it, even though it was blatantly obvious what happened. Hence, it is within the rules. It may not be very sporting, however, as the incident was treated as a racing incident (and nothing more), we can safely assume that you if you take out your nearest competitor, by having a "racing incident", it is well within the rules. The key thing here is "intent to take out your competitor" and this is damn near impossible to prove, unless the driver openly admits it (as Senna did, when he took out Prost).

Well sorry but thats a ridiculous comparison, its stupid compariing someone with virtually no F1 experience with someone with several years previous, you are only as good as your own experiences

Of course LH is going to make mistakes thats what rookies do (Im sure Alonso made just as many out of the limelight at the back of the grid) - just because LH is at the front you are being harder on him

Its a perfectly plausible comparison and not ridiculous in the slightest.

I would put up, Hamilton (the rookie, as you put it), against ANY driver in F1, bar Alonso. I would put money on him being able to outscore that driver, in a full WDC and this includes the most experienced driver ever, in F1 - Barrichello.

Hamilton has supreme natural ability, however, he is still hot headed and though he would probably outscore every other F1 driver, I feel that Alonso would beat him in an 18 race WDC, if it were held, starting today.

Experience can indeed give you an advantage, but Hamilton's outright pace gives him an even bigger advantage. You only need to see how he is pummelling Heikki and making him look very ordinary - and Heikki isnt slow; MS used to do this to all his team mates.
 
There is every point to a discussion. MS did what he did and got away with it, even though it was blatantly obvious what happened. Hence, it is within the rules. It may not be very sporting, however, as the incident was treated as a racing incident (and nothing more), we can safely assume that you if you take out your nearest competitor, by having a "racing incident", it is well within the rules. The key thing here is "intent to take out your competitor" and this is damn near impossible to prove, unless the driver openly admits it (as Senna did, when he took out Prost)..

I think they gave him the benefit of the doubt in 94 & in 97 the FIA where proved to be wrong, in which case the same situation wouldnt be within the rules, hence my point :D



I would put up, Hamilton (the rookie, as you put it), against ANY driver in F1, bar Alonso. I would put money on him being able to outscore that driver, in a full WDC and this includes the most experienced driver ever, in F1 - Barrichello. .

Even now Alonso would be beaten hands down by LH - and it was only mechanical issues which allowed Alonso to outscore him in the 2nd half of the season (over the whole season Alonso still lost out)

Barrichello is a great guy I think, but not even worth considering


Hamilton has supreme natural ability, however, he is still hot headed and though he would probably outscore every other F1 driver, I feel that Alonso would beat him in an 18 race WDC, if it were held, starting today..

You gotta be kidding

The increase in the amount of experience that Alonso has gained since leaving McLaren is tiny in comparison to how much LH has gained (soley due to the far fewer races LH has competed in) - so effectively Alonso is exactly the same as he was end of last year where as LH is already a better driver (having experienced 50% more races) - yet Alonso would win when he didnt last year?

Your logic is flawed Im afraid



Experience can indeed give you an advantage, but Hamilton's outright pace gives him an even bigger advantage. You only need to see how he is pummelling Heikki and making him look very ordinary - and Heikki isnt slow; MS used to do this to all his team mates.

Exactly my point above , its how you start the season - Alonso got really het up early on last season and couldnt beat Hamilton significantly early on which made him seek alternative ways to beat him, which ultimately didnt succeed

In a completely level team, Alonso would be slaughtered mentally by Hamilton before the first 10 races where complete even now
 
So did you support Alonso, during the 2 years he beat MS? In the last few years, he is the only one who was able to beat the mighty MS/Ferrari.

Just a quick point, which will do doubt be derided as pro-Ferrari nonsense....but d'you not think Schumacher and Ferrari got somewhat hurt by the 2005 regulations and the tyre war swinging into favouring Michelin (aside from the bizarre ****-up at Indy)?

I know speculation like this is pretty pointless, but you don't tend to go from all-conquering down to 91 points behind the lead constructor in the space of a single season these days without something pretty serious happening. And had everyone been on Bridgestones, I do wonder if Renault and McLaren would have out-performed Ferrari the way they did - they might have caught them, maybe even been faster on several occasions. But would they have obliterated them the way they did? I'm not sure. Off the back of the '03 season I could see it - that was pretty close. But 2004 just wasn't close at all. It was a red-wash. Add to that the fact that Renault and McLaren weren't even 'best of the rest' that year (the boys from BAR were)....

2006 - rather more of a straight fight than '05, tyre-wise. It was swings and roundabouts, as a tyre war should be, and Fernando had the skill and luck to take the title. He was still a petulant little arse, but that's not the point. He won, and at the end of the day winning is all that history will remember after a certain point.
 
Even now Alonso would be beaten hands down by LH - and it was only mechanical issues which allowed Alonso to outscore him in the 2nd half of the season (over the whole season Alonso still lost out)

Barrichello is a great guy I think, but not even worth considering

The increase in the amount of experience that Alonso has gained since leaving McLaren is tiny in comparison to how much LH has gained (soley due to the far fewer races LH has competed in) - so effectively Alonso is exactly the same as he was end of last year where as LH is already a better driver (having experienced 50% more races) - yet Alonso would win when he didnt last year?

Your logic is flawed Im afraid

I think it is your logic that is flawed, bearing in mind that only a few posts earlier you clearly stated that it was pointless comparing someone with virtually no experience with someone who has raced a few seasons. Now you seem to have done a complete U-turn and are coming down on the side of Lewis Hamilton who has only competed in 25 or so races.

You are assuming that last year was a level playing field. As far as I'm concerned, it wasnt. Alonso was up against virtually the whole team who were not on speaking terms with him. They pretty much all wanted him out. Its not easy working under those conditions.

I'm sure you have a job. Imagine if nobody, including your own boss, was not speaking to you and all the rumours were that you were going to be sacked in a few months. This certainly wouldnt be conducive to bringing out the best in you.

Alonso went through this and beat Hamilton, in the 2nd half of the season, pointswise. From what I remember, Hamilton crashed in the pitlane in China (nothing mechanically wrong, though his tyres were worn out - no big deal though) and in the last race of the season, he fell behind through his own actions.


In a completely level team, Alonso would be slaughtered mentally by Hamilton before the first 10 races where complete even now

Nope. Last year, Alonso showed how mentally tough he was to come back at Hamilton, even though he was working in dire conditions (see my comments above). No employee can be expected to compete/work at his best, when all hears are rumours that he is going to be sacked.

Hamilton was lucky that at McLaren, he was seen as the golden child and given full backing. He was never isolated (in the same way Alonso was). If he was to be put under this sort of pressure, I doubt he would perform anywhere near as well.

If the 2 of them competed in the same car, either McLaren or better still, Ferrari, my money would be on Alonso. He has the ability to develop and set up the car better than Hamilton (though juding from the last few races, Hamilton seems to have got the hang of this) and before this season, tended to make less mistakes.

You seem to be unable to think objectively as for whatever reason, you donot like Alonso. Myself, I like Hamilton a lot, but after last season, coming into a brand new team and working in such a (mentally) harsh environment, he proved that he is top class.
 
Just a quick point, which will do doubt be derided as pro-Ferrari nonsense....but d'you not think Schumacher and Ferrari got somewhat hurt by the 2005 regulations and the tyre war swinging into favouring Michelin

2005, I admit, Renault were not facing Ferrari at full strength. However, in 2006, I felt that Ferrari/MS were at full force. I remember in one of the Italian GPs that year, MS was going about 1s/lap faster than Alonso - it was terrifying to see Ferrari/MS going that fast. Alonso successfully held off MS to take the win. After that race, many thought that from that point on, Ferrari would obliterate Renault, however, this never happened as Renault came right back. Ferrari did have the edge though and I think it was when MS's Ferrari broke down that effectively ended MS's title challenge that year.
 
the KERS system is used to turn kinetic energy (from braking) into electrical energy which is stored in a battaery and can be used to power the car's subsystems. More info here.

IIRC BMW are the first to market this technology on their own road cars with the EfficientDynamics models.
Not quite. The KERS system will be a phased introduction with the culmination being 2011, however for now it seems that the KERS system will allow the driver some use of the energy stored on a lap-per-lap basis.
The use of any device, other than the 2.4 litre, four stroke engine and one KERS, to power the car, is not permitted.

With the exception of one fully charged KERS, the total amount of recoverable energy stored on the car must not exceed 300kJ. Any which may be recovered at a rate greater than 2kW must not exceed 20kJ.

The maximum power, in or out, of any KERS must not exceed 60kW (81bhp). Energy released from the KERS may not exceed 400kJ in any one lap. Measurements will be taken at the connection to the rear wheel drive train.

Any KERS may only be capable of increasing the stored energy whilst the car is moving on the track. Release of power from any such system must remain under the complete control of the driver at all times the car is on the track.

Cars must be fitted with homologated sensors which provide all necessary signals to the SDR in order to verify the requirements above are being respected.

Some of the main rule changes for 2009 are (taken from here):
There are also significant changes in the size of the cars with the maximum width increasing from 1800mm to 2000mm and the minimum width being no less than 1980mm, which more or less standardises the cars. Wheels will increase from a maximum of 355mm at the front to 365mm and at the rear from 380mm to 460mm, putting more rubber on the road.

There are changes to the bodywork rules with an increase in the allowed width between the wheels. It is significant that the maximum bodywork behind the rear wheels is being increased to 2000mm up from the current 1000mm. This will mean that there is more scope for creating downforce and ground effect. There are complicated new rules about the way in which rear wings can operate with new measuring techniques and insistence on rigid supports. The weight remains much the same, moving from 600kg to 605kg. The KERS devices are the only place where enregy can be stored and these must never have more than 60kW and energy released must not exceed 400kJ in the course of one lap.

Great to see that along with less aero apendages, the cars will be wider and have much fatter tyres - thank god!
 
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Not sure if this has been mentioned, if so, appologies.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080722141047.shtml

Clever solution gives McLaren traction
Four-paddle steering wheel in use
22/07/08 14:10


The secret of McLaren's run of pace in the last weeks may have been revealed by a British newspaper.

A technical report published on the Daily Telegraph website said back-to-back Grand Prix winner Lewis Hamilton, and his teammate Heikki Kovalainen, are making use of a unique four-paddle steering wheel.

With the conventional two paddles for changing gears, the extra two paddles allow the drivers to easily select different engine torque settings throughout the course of a lap, the renowned writer Mark Hughes claimed.



The solution could be allowing McLaren drivers to limit wheelspin under acceleration out of corners, thus making canny use of the new-for-2008 ban on traction control.

"This is part of McLaren's current performance superiority over Ferrari," Hughes added.
 
2005, I admit, Renault were not facing Ferrari at full strength.

That's good of you. So how about you drop that Ferrari International Assistance **** that you keep spouting then, since if the FIA are playing that game they haven't made a desperately good job of it at times ;)

However, in 2006, I felt that Ferrari/MS were at full force. I remember in one of the Italian GPs that year, MS was going about 1s/lap faster than Alonso - it was terrifying to see Ferrari/MS going that fast. Alonso successfully held off MS to take the win.

Minor point - Schumacher won both the Italian races in '06. San Marino 2005 - Alonso held Schumacher off for the win (one of the few races where the Bridgestones seemed to get into the same ballpark as the Michelins). 2006 - reversed result, Schumacher holding off Alonso. 2005 Monza - Schumacher finished 10th, Alonso 2nd. 2006 - Schumacher won, Alonso's engine went pop.

Hmmm. Minor was the wrong word. What I meant to say was.....wha'choo talkin' 'bout, sunama? :)
 
That's good of you. So how about you drop that Ferrari International Assistance **** that you keep spouting then, since if the FIA are playing that game they haven't made a desperately good job of it at times ;)



Minor point - Schumacher won both the Italian races in '06. San Marino 2005 - Alonso held Schumacher off for the win (one of the few races where the Bridgestones seemed to get into the same ballpark as the Michelins). 2006 - reversed result, Schumacher holding off Alonso. 2005 Monza - Schumacher finished 10th, Alonso 2nd. 2006 - Schumacher won, Alonso's engine went pop.

Hmmm. Minor was the wrong word. What I meant to say was.....wha'choo talkin' 'bout, sunama? :)

Ah yes...Monza 06, that was the turning point of Schumachers charge for the 06 championship. When Alonsos engine went pop the Tifosi crowd just errupted like a volcano. Was awesome :D
 
Hamilton has supreme natural ability, however, he is still hot headed and though he would probably outscore every other F1 driver, I feel that Alonso would beat him in an 18 race WDC, if it were held, starting today.

You got that backwards, Alonso is the hot head. He would have easily won the WDC last year if he kept his head but instead he let Hamilton get under his skin. This lead to mistakes(*) in Spain, Canada, Japan, France and Hungary which all ended up costing a lot of points when he only needed an extra 2.

*Some would probably have happened anyway, but not all of them.
 
Good on 'em. Anything that gets around all these petty restrictions on development that the FIA have brought in is welcome, even if it's McLaren doing it :)

Yes but like the brake covers, which everyone kicked up a stink about saying it was illegal because it was technically a "moving part" which it was not, it will surely be copied by all the other teams at the end :)
 
Yes but like the brake covers, which everyone kicked up a stink about saying it was illegal because it was technically a "moving part" which it was not, it will surely be copied by all the other teams at the end :)

Such is the way of F1. Cooper put the engine behind the driver, everyone follows suit. Lotus being in ground effects, everyone does their best to copy. Ferrari bring in a paddle shift semi-auto 'box, everyone on the grid rushes around to get their own. Tyrrell bring in a 'high' nose design*, it becomes almost de rigeur a few years later. Ferrari start putting covers on their wheels, suddenly other teams are sprouting the damned things. Can't fight it :)


* - shameful for me to admit, but I'm not honestly certain I got that one right. Was it Tyrrell who brought it in? I think it was the 019, their 1990 challenger.
 
Such is the way of F1. Cooper put the engine behind the driver, everyone follows suit. Lotus being in ground effects, everyone does their best to copy. Ferrari bring in a paddle shift semi-auto 'box, everyone on the grid rushes around to get their own. Tyrrell bring in a 'high' nose design*, it becomes almost de rigeur a few years later. Ferrari start putting covers on their wheels, suddenly other teams are sprouting the damned things. Can't fight it :)


* - shameful for me to admit, but I'm not honestly certain I got that one right. Was it Tyrrell who brought it in? I think it was the 019, their 1990 challenger.

Agreed :)


Btw:


Hmm it seems its a 6 paddle shift! (I think the other two are clutch and something else)

44RYLWL.jpg

And info from Mclaren website:

Without a steering wheel, even the world’s best Formula 1 drivers would find it hard to display their talents. The modern wheel does much more than just steer the car, however.

Ostensibly, the purpose of a steering wheel is simple enough – to transmit the driver’s input to the steered wheels of the vehicle in question – when that vehicle is a Formula 1 car, however, simple is hardly an appropriate term.

The steering wheels currently used by Vodafone McLaren Mercedes’ drivers reflect the revolutionary changes that have occurred in Formula 1 steering wheel design – as well as technology in the sport as a whole – over the course of the past decade.

"The steering wheel of a modern Formula 1 car is one of the most intriguing parts because it is so visible,” admits Steve Hallam, Head of Race Engineering at Vodafone McLaren Mercedes. “Most visitors to the McLaren Technology or to the pit facility at a race get an opportunity to hold the wheel and pull the gearshift levers – the obvious bits. The majority of them then ask a perfectly logical question: ‘what do all the buttons actually do?’

“Well, if I answered that fully, I’d be giving away too many team secrets! I can say, though, that the steering wheel is a very complex piece of kit, which allows our drivers to perform a number of tasks aside from the wheel’s intended purpose – steering the car.”

Indeed, even as recently as 1992, the steering wheel on a Formula 1 car was a relatively plain, straightforward piece of equipment, round in shape, with a metal plate at the centre to attach it to the steering column, and generally no more than three buttons – one for selecting neutral, one for releasing liquid through a tube in the helmet for the driver to replenish his fluid levels and one for the radio.

The advent of complex electronic systems in Formula 1 throughout the 1990s changed all that, though, and a plethora of different functions began to be controlled by buttons and dials, placed on the steering wheel for ease of access by the drivers while racing. The onset of semi-automatic gear systems in the early 1990s heralded the arrival of ‘paddle-shift’ gear levers, mounted behind the steering wheel, which negate the need for the driver to remove his hands from the wheel to select a gear. This eliminates the possibility of a driver missing a gear, therefore increasing the smoothness and improving the timing of gearshifts.

Engine mapping, traction control and the advent of launch control programs that optimised the race start procedure all required various buttons and toggle switches to enable the driver to fine-tune his car’s settings while on-track. Modern Formula 1 steering wheels typically now include a clutch paddle, as this is only used when the car is leaving the garage, and eliminating the clutch pedal allows the car designers to further optimise the packaging of components in the footwell.

The steering wheel is one of the most complex and high-tech parts of a Formula 1 car, with a typical wheel controlling at least 12 further functions in addition to actually steering the wheels. In spite of the confidentiality surrounding the functions controlled by the many buttons on the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes steering wheel, here is a full guide to their secrets.

How Are They Made?

The manufacture of any part on a Formula 1 car is a complex process, and the steering wheel is no exception. Many different lightweight materials are used in its manufacture, including carbon fibre, aluminium, titanium, steel, rubber and plastic, and a complete steering wheel can take approximately 100 hours to produce from start to finish.

With the average steering wheel controlling as many as 12 separate parameters on the car, there is a large number of components, buttons and switches that have to be fitted during the manufacturing process – some 120 separate items in all. Yet, despite the myriad of materials and parts that make up each completed wheel, the weight of the finished unit, as fitted to the car, is just 1.3 kilograms.

During the season, a minimum of five steering wheels are constructed for each of the team’s two race drivers. Of these, three remain with the race team while two are held with the test team. In addition, test driver Pedro de la Rosa has four wheels per season; two are kept with the race team and two for testing, whilst Gary Paffett has three steering wheels that travel with the test team at all times. However, during any specific Formula 1 season, more steering wheels will have to be manufactured, because it is a Vodafone McLaren Mercedes policy that, when one of its drivers finishes a grand prix on the podium, the wheel from his car is removed and its history documented. It will then go into storage as a valuable souvenir of the team’s success, never to be used again.

A version of this article originally appeared in Racing Line, the McLaren Group's in-house magazine.

http://www.mclaren.com/in-depth/steering-wheel.php
 
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