Poll: *** 2010 General Election Result & Discussion ***

[RDM]

Yeah, I'm sure.

Being somewhat keener on democracy and fairness to all than you are, I will be sorry to see Great Britain revert to a medieval feudal system based entirely on power, wealth, greed and selfishness under the Tories

I don't seem to recall asking for the UK to revert back to a medieval fuedal system. Indeed being opposed to your delightful ideas regarding authoritarianism and actually liking individual rights and freedoms I would say my personal position is very, very far away from a fuedal idea. But lets not let reality get in the way of your bitterness, it is much more entertaining this way.

Things like food, water, and medicine is VAT free. these are essentials.

There is also many things that have a reduced VAT rate of 5%, These include electricity etc.

Items that are taxed at the full rate include things like TVs, playstations, etc.

I would suggest that clothing may fall under "essentials" especially with our indecency laws

If Charles Kennedy still ran the Lib Dems, would he have agreed to the current arrangement ?

As he is still an MP and all MPs voted in favour of the deal I would assume he is pragmatic enough to agree to it.

 

[PMKeates]

Didn't Gordon Brown describe Internet access as a 'Human Right'?

In this link, he describes it as being 'as vital as gas and water':

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6506136.ece

I think there is some value in the opinion that the Internet should no longer be considered a luxury good.

The Internet is such an amazing resource and tool. It grants access to thousands of services, including public ones, a wealth of information and news and acts as a very efficient means of communication.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Yeah, I'm sure.

Being somewhat keener on democracy and fairness to all than you are, I will be sorry to see Great Britain revert to a medieval feudal system based entirely on power, wealth, greed and selfishness under the Tories

FFS stockers, the party you voted for has 5 cabinet seats including superb choices for Business and Chief Secretary and a Lib Dem Deputy PM.

At least give them and the Tories a chance before, as you suggest, William Wallace starts sacking York and Edward I invokes primae noctis.

 

[D.P.]

And clothes (except children's clothes), shoes, cutlery, crockery, furniture, curtains, etc.

These items are purchased infrequently and can be purchased cheaply and 2nd hand. If the "hard working low paid" cannot afford brand name clothing then there are plenty of cheap clothes and shoes stores. It is not essential to wear Nike/Diesel/etc.

My furniture I picked up form the charity shop, no VAT there.

[QUOTE
Not to mention that the zero-rate of VAT on food benefits the rich more than the poor.[/QUOTE]

 

[stockhausen]

What about the lazy low paid that don't work hard, how do the get hit?

Good question; sadly however, entirely devoid of meaning

You will not know this, but there are in fact, very many people who are paid at the minimum wage and who work damned hard.


Actually, I lied, it is not a good question

 

[D.P.]

I think there is some value in the opinion that the Internet should no longer be considered a luxury good.

The Internet is such an amazing resource and tool. It grants access to thousands of services, including public ones, a wealth of information and news and acts as a very efficient means of communication.

That it is, but there is nothing essential that has to be done that requires internet within ones own home. Especially considering public internet is readily available.

I really don't need internet at my home, and if I was financially struggling it would eb the first thing to go.

 

[PMKeates]

That it is, but there is nothing essential that has to be done that requires internet within ones own home. Especially considering public internet is readily available.

I really don't need internet at my home, and if I was financially struggling it would eb the first thing to go.

Accessing the Internet in a public place is not always practical for logistical and time reasons. Being able to quickly look something up, check your bank statement, pay a bill, chat to a friend via Skype etc. is part of what the Internet is about. If you have to go the library or whatever to use the Internet, you may as well walk a little further and go to the bank that's probably next to it, or get the book from the library you are probably accessing the Internet in. It doesn't add that extra dimension like having the Internet at home does.

Maybe it's because you are older that you don't have the attachment to the Internet that I do. I would forgo some meals and heating before losing the Internet.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Accessing the Internet in a public place is not always practical for logistical and time reasons. Being able to quickly look something up, check your bank statement, pay a bill, chat to a friend via Skype etc. is part of what the Internet is about. If you have to go the library or whatever to use the Internet, you may as well walk a little further and go to the bank that's probably next to it, or get the book from the library you are probably accessing the Internet in. It doesn't add that extra dimension like having the Internet at home does.

Maybe it's because you are older that you don't have the attachment to the Internet that I do. I would forgo some meals and heating before losing the Internet.

I'm 27, and have been using the internet since 11. It is not essential.

Yes, you'd have to walk down the road, yes you'd have to maybe get on a bus to go to the high street instead of ordering online.

The internet is not essential. Period.

 

[D.P.]

Accessing the Internet in a public place is not always practical for logistical and time reasons. Being able to quickly look something up, check your bank statement, pay a bill, chat to a friend via Skype etc. is part of what the Internet is about. If you have to go the library or whatever to use the Internet, you may as well walk a little further and go to the bank that's probably next to it, or get the book from the library you are probably accessing the Internet in. It doesn't add that extra dimension like having the Internet at home does.

Maybe it's because you are older that you don't have the attachment to the Internet that I do. I would forgo some meals and heating before losing the Internet.

I'm 27 so not that old.
Chatting with skype is not essential.
Nor is e-banking. Indeed, just this last Sunday I went to the bank machine to pay some bills because the security card I use for online banking didn't work. Was it the end of the world, no.

 

[Lakeland]

That is your own fault for moving out though.

 

[PMKeates]

The internet is not essential. Period.

Great! Your opinion ends the discussion. Wonderful. I'd invite you to my house for a celebratory party, but I only have the essential 6ft 6 door, so your head probably wouldn't fit through it?

I'm 27 so not that old.
Chatting with skype is not essential.
Nor is e-banking. Indeed, just this last Sunday I went to the bank machine to pay some bills because the security card I use for online banking didn't work. Was it the end of the world, no.

I'm 23 so, in the scheme of what the Internet is used for, quite a fair bit younger!

I'll happily admit that the Internet isn't absolutely essential, but my argument was that there is some value to be gained from those that have the opinion that it is. Sure it isn't like oxygen or food or water, but then the times move on. In 1850 electricity wasn't an essential, would you like to live without it now? Raising the bar is how we make progress.

From a purely economic standpoint, providing Internet access to those that cannot already afford it, is probably less of a drain than having to have so many post offices, bank branches etc. and their associated staff.

 

[Raumarik]

From a purely economic standpoint, providing Internet access to those that cannot already afford it, is probably less of a drain than having to have so many post offices, bank branches etc. and their associated staff.

Actually it's probably not, provide the internet and the next thing is the computers to use it, training on the software and the software. Then we're looking at hardware/software replacement cycles. All your doing is employing another set of people to do a different job but essentially providing the same services. I doubt there would be an enormous saving and it would cause a lot of problem for the older people in society, who even if they can use a computer may need specialist equipment due to poor eye sight and need special keyboards/mice.

Bank branches are more or less essential anyway, tried organising a mortgage over the net or the phone? we have - ended up taking 3 days off work and going into a branch as they constantly ****** up our application despite it being filled in for them!

 

[atpbx]

Great! Your opinion ends the discussion. Wonderful. I'd invite you to my house for a celebratory party, but I only have the essential 6ft 6 door, so your head probably wouldn't fit through it? I'm 23 so, in the scheme of what the Internet is used for, quite a fair bit younger!

I'll happily admit that the Internet isn't absolutely essential, but my argument was that there is some value to be gained from those that have the opinion that it is. Sure it isn't like oxygen or food or water, but then the times move on. In 1850 electricity wasn't an essential, would you like to live without it now? Raising the bar is how we make progress.

From a purely economic standpoint, providing Internet access to those that cannot already afford it, is probably less of a drain than having to have so many post offices, bank branches etc. and their associated staff.

Its a case of priorities, providing internet access for everyone just isnt important.
Its like, unfunded public sector pension debt was completely disregarded by labour in its spending plans, maybe addressing the massive mountain of further debt labour have created for us looming on the horizon FIRST, then we can have a look a sticking free broadband into council houses.
Lets try and get the shambolic labour spending under control, and addressed so its something verging on viable and sustainable, then we can look at stuff like this.
This isnt addressed directly at you, but I cannot see how people are blind to the complete mess labour have made of the economy, how is projected public debt of £1.4 trillion by 2014 viable? how is spending many many many billions more than the country makes every year, indefinitely viable?

 

[Andy_82]

Great! Your opinion ends the discussion. Wonderful. I'd invite you to my house for a celebratory party, but I only have the essential 6ft 6 door, so your head probably wouldn't fit through it? I'm 23 so, in the scheme of what the Internet is used for, quite a fair bit younger!

I'll happily admit that the Internet isn't absolutely essential, but my argument was that there is some value to be gained from those that have the opinion that it is. Sure it isn't like oxygen or food or water, but then the times move on. In 1850 electricity wasn't an essential, would you like to live without it now? Raising the bar is how we make progress.

From a purely economic standpoint, providing Internet access to those that cannot already afford it, is probably less of a drain than having to have so many post offices, bank branches etc. and their associated staff.

I'd argue internet access is not far from being essential, similar to electricity was in the 1930's (if i remember correctly the US government subsidised connection to the grid in certain areas). Also, subsidising access may very well be a net benefit to the economy and to society. Internet access is also extremely important to people who have great difficulty with mobility and the visually impaired.

 

[Energize]

In general, VAT is indeed the fairest tax as it is totally based on consumption. The poorest people will hardly pay any VAT at all if they are just buying their basic food items.

Except that they pay tax on food, petrol, gas, electric and water. Income tax is the fairest tax as it is proportional, VAT hits the poorest the hardest.

 

[Lightnix]

Except that they pay tax on food, petrol, gas, electric and water. Income tax is the fairest tax as it is proportional, VAT hits the poorest the hardest.

Food and water are at 0% VAT and fuels are at only 5% for the most part.

 

[Energize]

Food and water are at 0% VAT and

Many foods are not 0%, even juice has vat on it.

fuels are at only 5% for the most part.

Petrol is 65% tax if you hadn't noticed.


What would be fair is, no VAT on any essentials such as: food, water, gas, electric, petrol, toiletries, postal services. Income tax allowance of £15k and flat tax thereafter, ensuring all income tax is on essentials only.

 

[JamesU2005]

I'm 27, and have been using the internet since 11. It is not essential.

Yes, you'd have to walk down the road, yes you'd have to maybe get on a bus to go to the high street instead of ordering online.

The internet is not essential. Period.

How about the elderly, or disabled who rely on it to live? Perhaps being cut off from towns or cities, or perhaps just purely unable to leave the house.

Those that can not do things we take for granted, have discovered a new found freedom to being able to run their lives themselves rather than relying on others. Ordering Food, services, help, advice etc, is all available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Internet in this day and age is essential. Period.

 

[scorza]

Not to mention that public services are increasingly being delivered via the internet. IMO this is one area the government will look to for these much vaunted "efficiency savings" - first they have to make sure that everyone has internet access.

 

[Heliospherez]

QUOTE " The Internet in this day and age is essential. Period"


No it's not.

And no where near essential in fact. Can you honestly say it is a matter of life and death to people ? I could quite easily live without it - as could most of my workmates (and some do)

Are their lives in anyway restricted ? Absolutely not. And I'm damn sure they won't be hungry or cold/neglected just becuase they don't have it this winter either. And some are in the 25-35 age group but can still manage to live without it. They can't even get a good dial up service, but yet they have lived quite happily for the last 5-10 years with (shock horror) no Internet either in their homes or on their mobiles - yet they can live exactly the same life as me and are just as well off and happy (possibly even happier as they don't have to read all the rubbish that's on it)

And as for the elderly needing it - There's virtually no elderly people here that use the internet - why would they ? Are you suggesting that OAP's can just spend the last 10 years of their life on a PC clicking on a Tesco shop - or video conferencing with their grandson in Aus, because he's too busy to visit them ???

Are you seriously putting Internet access along with Heating/food and water ? What would you do if you had to work in a country that had no net access for a few weeks ? Would you curl up and die ?