30xx Series Founders Edition

[Trig]

I gamed for a long time before I even knew what minig was, at what point do I become a miner and all of this is my fault?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I think it’s fair to say that there is a lot of people who mine but will never admit it.

likewise just because you mine, it doesn’t mean you are hoarding GPUs from ‘gamers’.

‘Gamers’ are contributing to the problem just as anyone else is. Just look how many on here bought a lower tier/AIB card early on because that’s alll they could get and have subsequently flipped it for a huge profit after getting a 3080/ti/90 FE and making all their money back. Likewise lots are more than happy to pay silly prices for LHR hardware which miners don’t really want, keeping prices high.

At the end of the day everyone is taking advantage of the shortage and there is no one group to blame, that’s capitalism at the end of the day.

 

[gpuerrilla]

@b0rn2sk8 gets it.

 

[heatonpkmassive]

@b0rn2sk8 gets it.

Yes, he makes valid points. Gamers who were prepared to pay scalper prices are equally to blame for what is happening and there are plenty of those people.

 

[Trig]

So what you are saying then is it's a perfect storm, Brexit, supply chain shortages, miners, gamers, scalpers are all working against each other in unison and it's all gone to ****?

 

[ljt]

Yes because no gamer has a 3 series card do they.

Eh?

I meant, if you removed the hundreds of thousands sold directly to industrial scale miners, that would mean hundreds of thousands more on shop shelves for the average gamer who buys just one.

I.e.

100,000 cards sold direct to 10 mining farms

or instead

100,000 sold to individual gamers, means 100,000 gamers get the cards instead.

 

[str]

So what you are saying then is it's a perfect storm, Brexit, supply chain shortages, miners, gamers, scalpers are all working against each other in unison and it's all gone to ****?

Lets not forget the puppet master, Nvidia, who has a fiduciary duty to ensure past mistakes do not happen again. Evidently they're doing a stellar job. (stock price has tripled this year)

 

[gpuerrilla]

Yes, he makes valid points. Gamers who were prepared to pay scalper prices are equally to blame for what is happening and there are plenty of those people.

+ we have established albeit a minority, that there are 'gamers' that rant about the status quo, yet happily part with their 30 series GPU to earn a quick profit. While I don't hate on these people, as you say above, they make the situation worse feeding the vicious cycles. We also have this cohort then buying another 30 series gpu - so an already limited supply gets worse as in affect these people are double buying..

 

[gpuerrilla]

or instead

100,000 sold to individual gamers, means 100,000 gamers get the cards instead.

Please see my point above.

10,000 of these 'gamers' then walk into CEX.
8,000 (arbitrary example) then order another GPU therefore are just as bad as the industrial miners.

 

[heatonpkmassive]

I gamed for a long time before I even knew what minig was, at what point do I become a miner and all of this is my fault?

Once you download Nicehash Quickminer, you're eligible to be blamed. Please confirm when you have downloaded the software so everyone can then throw gravel and dog **** at you

 

[ljt]

Please see my point above.

10,000 of these 'gamers' then walk into CEX.
8,000 (arbitrary example) then order another GPU therefore are just as bad as the industrial miners.

While I doubt that many would, I'll go along with your point. That means each gamer goes through 2 GPU's. Where as 1 mining farm could order 1000's of GPU's, then decides to set up another mining farm in a new unit, orders 1000's more. Times that by all the large mining firms and the scale just doesn't compare.

The point I'm getting at is, if mining never existed the situation would not be as bad as it is now. Yes there are still other factors such as production and supply constraints, but if you suddenly removed mining from the equation, there would be a lot less demand in the market, and more product on the shelves.

 

[gpuerrilla]

While I doubt that many would, I'll go along with your point. That means each gamer goes through 2 GPU's. Where as 1 mining farm could order 1000's of GPU's, then decides to set up another mining farm in a new unit, orders 1000's more. Times that by all the large mining firms and the scale just doesn't compare.

The point I'm getting at is, if mining never existed the situation would not be as bad as it is now. Yes there are still other factors such as production and supply constraints, but if you suddenly removed mining from the equation, there would be a lot less demand in the market, and more product on the shelves.

You get the point though. Then you add the perspective to consoles which are also cheaper but you cannot mine with and they have similar issues where scalpers buy them or gamers cash in and sell on to turn a profit when like now its Christmas frenzy. You also miss the point that the more miners there are, the less profits to go around, so the mining farm ordering another mining farm doesnt stack as you imply.

I don't see the GPU companies and supply chain going far enough if they truly want only gaming people to own a card. The reality is they could not care as they are making big profits.

 

[ljt]

You get the point though. Then you add the perspective to consoles which are also cheaper but you cannot mine with and they have similar issues where scalpers buy them or gamers cash in and sell on to turn a profit when like now its Christmas frenzy. You also miss the point that the more miners there are, the less profits to go around, so the mining farm ordering another mining farm doesnt stack as you imply.

I don't see the GPU companies and supply chain going far enough if they truly want only gaming people to own a card. The reality is they could not care as they are making big profits.

I'm not arguing that "some" gamers may buy a GPU just to sell on for a profit then buy another one, but that is small fry compared to mining farms. It's a simple fact that if mining didn't exist this problem would not be as bad. The problems like this have only really happened since mining came into existence. It happened the last time mining blew up, way before a pandemic caused supply and production issues.

Consoles are being scalped yes, but not in any near a degree as GPU's. Equally the MSRP set by Microsoft/Sony is adhered to by retailers, so while it may be hard to acquire them, at least when retailers are getting them, they are available for the price they should be. And from a personal experience, it was far easier to obtain an Xbox/PS5 than it was my GPU for MSRP.

 

[Puppetmaster]

"The problems like this have only really happened since mining came into existence. It happened the last time mining blew up, way before a pandemic caused supply and production issues.

There wasn't a supply issue in 2013 or 2018. Plenty of cards were available at generally reasonable prices both times. Distribution had plenty of stock for the most part as well. All of the lower ends cards were in stock. This time all cards are pretty much always sold out (unless over priced). Distribution basically doesn't have stock, several even removed GPUs from there websites.

Its almost like something is different this time

 

[b0rn2sk8]

The RRP for a GPU only applies to the founders edition from Nvidia. We do t have the AMD equivalent in the U.K.

AIBs can set their own RRPs for their own products. The vast majority of GPUs are AIB cards. That is clearly a major difference to consoles.

Consoles are also produced is quantities in orders of magnitude larger than retail GPUs. Consoles are massively subsidised by software sales so there is scope for them to take the hit of rising costs in the supply chain themselves. AIB GPUs are not.

 

[Joxeon]

There wasn't a supply issue in 2013 or 2018. Plenty of cards were available at generally reasonable prices both times. Distribution had plenty of stock for the most part as well. All of the lower ends cards were in stock. Its almost like something is different this time

Crypto and mining wasn't as popular back then and also this time it's stayed high for much longer than before.

 

[gpuerrilla]

There wasn't a supply issue in 2013 or 2018. Plenty of cards were available at generally reasonable prices both times. Distribution had plenty of stock for the most part as well. All of the lower ends cards were in stock. This time all cards are pretty much always sold out (unless over priced). Distribution basically doesn't have stock, several even removed GPUs from there websites.

Its almost like something is different this time

People who are new to the crypto era or are in the general public late to the party, tend to think GPU mining is 'new'.

I have been using GPU's to mine for a decade now. The only difference between 2011 and 2021 is there has been more time for it to reverberate into mainstream circles! Its no longer a nerdy niche segment and gamers have put two and two together to realise you can make some back. If you look at the Nicehash comms they are always blasting out now "gamers put your computer to use when your not gaming and get some money" to that effect!

 

[gpuerrilla]

The RRP for a GPU only applies to the founders edition from Nvidia. We do t have the AMD equivalent in the U.K.

AIBs can set their own RRPs for their own products. The vast majority of GPUs are AIB cards. That is clearly a major difference to consoles.

Consoles are also produced is quantities in orders of magnitude larger than retail GPUs. Consoles are massively subsidised by software sales so there is scope for them to take the hit of rising costs in the supply chain themselves. AIB GPUs are not.

Exactly, and because they cost less than a GPU I cant see why @ljt is so dismissive of it?

Consoles are being scalped yes, but not in any near a degree as GPU's...from a personal experience, it was far easier to obtain an Xbox/PS5 than it was my GPU for MSRP.

I see many people still find it hard to obtain one, much like GPU's which is why it has been compared - albeit you cant mine with them so its more a scalper/supply issue. Can't blame mining on everything.

 

[ljt]

Exactly, and because they cost less than a GPU I cant see why @ljt is so dismissive of it?



I see many people still find it hard to obtain one, much like GPU's which is why it has been compared - albeit you cant mine with them so its more a scalper/supply issue. Can't blame mining on everything.

I'm afraid you've lost me there... Not sure what you mean about me being dismissive. I only mentioned consoles because you did.

Bare in mind, not all of us agree with mining, I won't mine on my GPU as I don't want to on principal, so I shouldn't have to mine to recoup the initial inflated price either.

 

[gpuerrilla]

I'm afraid you've lost me there... Not sure what you mean about me being dismissive. I only mentioned consoles because you did.

Its pretty simple. I added consoles to the comparison as you cant mine with a console. Yet is suffers the same issues with scalping/gamers selling them if CEX offer double. You then went on to dismiss the points made which as @Puppetmaster rightly pointed out GPU mining has been around for ages, CPU even longer. Have you struggled to get a CPU lately? You can also mine using disk space.

Yes mining impacts the supply but its not the sole reason why there is a problem. Just to remind you in case you forget what you posted:

Unprecedented demand caused by mining farms....

I'm not a miner but even I know that mining is only part of the reason, and probably not the largest part by any stretch.

This is far more accurate a statement.