4930K benchys early look. Conclusion.. Meh.

[Boomstick777]

Going to be careful how I link to the article as I don't want to suspended for hot linking Please excuse the lack of direct links. Photos have been uploaded to photobucket, that seems ok in the other threads..

hxxp://www.chinadiy.com.cn/html/53/n-10953.html

 

[Boomstick777]

So people seem content with 5% improvement on the new CPU's that replacing the now 2 year old CPU's. Ok but shouldn't the price be less, surely such little performance increase doesn't warrant the high prices that Intel charge for X79. I could accept 5% more performance if it meant that now using 22nm etc that it translated as 'ok well there isn't any more performance but we have better prices for the customer', but only 5% more performance after 2 years and the same prices bolstered seems pretty poor..

It's as much AMD's fault though tbh, if they could release a competitive part Intel wouldn't be able to get away with it lol.

Hopefully Haswell -E will bring some real performance increases and justify the prices..

 

[Boomstick777]

I actually don't see it as much of a problem. People can now spend less cash to keep themselves at the top of the performance charts because today's hardware is going to last a lot longer than it would have 10 years ago.

That just sounds like acceptance, we expect more from GPU's improvements year on year, so why should people be happy to pay the same prices we were paying two years ago for a product that only offers 5% more performance?

Can you imagine that working in the GPU space, two years and only 5% more perfomance

I hope AMD execute soon, and can make the market competitive again.. The stagnation sucks. APU's are more exciting.. That's how bad it is

 

[Boomstick777]

This low gain was expected though.
Haswell-E isn't going to be much more exciting either, more of the same, as it was on 1150 from 1155.

Agreed, the best thing about Haswell -E is the first true 8 core desktop Intel CPU, along with the massive reduction in power consumption, I think overall Haswell -E is a much more compelling upgrade than Ivybridge -E..

It's a much better chip all around for new adopters, the only people who will be disappointed is current Sandy Bridge-E owners who can't justify paying out again. Plus without knowing the price and overclockability we can't fully judge it yet.

I do agree with this ^^, it's a def a better chip, lower power consumption etc, it's also much cheaper for Intel to make, and it's a shame with such little performance increase that Intel won't pass that saving onto the customer, but rather bolster the same high price point. If only AMD could make a decent CPU, they could really disrupt the market and force huge price drops.. Come on AMD get Steamroller out of the gate..

 

[Boomstick777]

Intel do have a problem though, if Steamroller's half decent, Intel need to bring more cores in, short of producing a 5 core chip (lol) I'm not sure how they're going to do it without messing up socket 2011 and annoying all their 39XX and Ivy-E hex users.

Agreed, everything is setup for AMD to bring a decent part out and disrupt the current market and be competitive, it all depends on how quickly when they can launch new parts. I'm always rooting for AMD because they are the underdog, it's like they have these awesome ideas but bring them to market to late when they are starting to become irrelevant in comparison to what Intel is doing.. Hopefully AMD can get Steamroller parts out before Haswell -E and the Haswell refresh. Otherwise they might only be considered 'value' alternatives again.

AMD's APU's are awesome though, that is one area where they are doing really well..

But that's the thing, you don't have to pay for that 5% more. You're still effectively as fast as you can get, yet will now last effectively 2 (or even more) CPU generation iterations, whilst when there's massive gains every year you're more likely to have to pay out every time a new architecture was released to keep up.

That's one way of looking at it. I just see the high end CPU market as stagnated and overpriced atm, Intel do offer the best value with the mainstream Haswell stuff right now, but would be nice to see some 6 - 8 core parts that aren't priced so high..

AMD are also to blame by not providing any competition. Hopefully that will change with Steamroller..

 

[Boomstick777]

The IB-E chips will reportedly be priced slightly lower than their SB-E counterparts, plus the 5% difference is at stock and nobody buys SB/IB-E to run it at stock.

Didn't know they would be priced lower, that's what I was saying, the cost reduction for Intel should be passed onto the consumer, especially with such little overall performance increase. If they do come in cheaper than that would be good. The power consumption on Ivy -E will be a lot better than Sandy -E as well. So if they are cheaper than I guess it's not such a bad upgrade. I just hope AMD bring it with Steamroller and the high end CPU market becomes more exciting / compelling to upgrade. Right now APU's are the most interesting thing in computing, that's how boring the high end has become .

 

[Boomstick777]

Yes would be nice, stuck between the rock and a hard place atm > X79 Ivy-E or Haswell have spec'd both lol keep changing me mind.

Haswell = cheaper, uses less power and performs very very well. Haswell is ideal until Haswell -E imho. At least then we gain 2 extra cores (First 8 core desktop chips) and much lower power use. An 8 core Haswell -E chip could be a worthy upgrade, by then AMD should have some Steamroller chips out , could be whole different market. Atm Haswell is a great solution and not very expensive.

 

[Boomstick777]

Its only ideal if you get a good one, i find haswell like ivy is a proper lottery between chips and poor tim plus the x79 has option for tons of ram and ( i could be wrong but full fat x16 x16 sli action that you only get on higher end z87 with plx chips which make them almost as costly as the x79, if you take the 3930k out of the equation and go with the 3820 or the newer version of said chip dont prices kind of match up ?

Yeah some people see Haswell as poor clocking, but over time most are getting better clocks, there was more of a learning curve with Haswell, not as simple as Sandy / Ivy, the on chip volt control changed the over clocking, but now most seem to be getting Haswell chips to reach 4.4Ghz - 4.6Ghz with a decent cooler.

If you compare stock VS stock, the 4770K outperforms the 3960X at most things and uses a lot less power while doing so. So being at a midtier price, that is a hell of a lot of value, and the reason I switched from my 3960X to a 4770K setup, to save money and use less power. Overclocking is a bonus imho. For most that kind of performance at stock is appealing.

Haswell is ideal for most gamers etc until Haswell -E, maybe by then more cores will be being utilized as well, due to the nature of upcoming consoles, it might push developers to use more cores. I do think there is little reason to go X79 over a 4770K setup unless your doing workstation type stuff. For gaming and general PC use, 4670K and 4770K offer amazing value VS performance, and the option to upgrade to a 5770K or whatever they call the next refresh chip.

 

[Boomstick777]

I know this is an enthusiast forum and we should expect a bit more but when was the last time your PC struggled to actually do something? The first gen I5 in my old macbook still runs everything fine in OSX or Windows. All the big players are clearly coasting but it feels like its due to a lack of anything that truly taxes a modern PC

5% performance increase in 2 years is poor by most peoples estimations. If this was GPU's for example they would be straight up laughed at. The drop in power consumption is good but yeah you would expect a little better from such a high priced tier of products.

You may be happy with current CPU's and think they good enough but there is still lot's of room for performance increases, lower power use / more cores etc, and at the very least price reductions due to the cost savings for Intel. There is a massive market for performance computer parts. If there wasn't we wouldn't be here talking about it would we?

To say well it's ok for Intel to charge an arm and a leg for 5% after 2 years because CPU's these days are good enough just isn't logical. If we thought like that no one would ever upgrade and Intel would never sell anything.. It's counter intuitive. Intel need to feed the market but are drip feeding us performance as there is lack of direct competition. That is the only reason they can get away with 5% after two years. This isn't good for the consumer, hopefully AMD can make things competitive again with Steamroller..

It won't matter to you because you're happy with what you've got already

 

[Boomstick777]

Tom's did a benchmark review on an eng-sample 4960X last month;
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4960x-ivy-bridge-e-benchmark,3557.html

They weren't exactly blown away

Thanks for that link, having a read.

*Edit* The 49XX series has def got better power use, so that is good but noticed how the 4770K is faster than the 4960X in 3Dmark 11 benchmark (GPU performance). The improved IPC has a big effect on GPU performance. Also wins some of the software benchmarks. It makes the 4930K and 4960X seem even more of a pointless upgrade for the target 'enthusiast' in the face of better gaming performance on 4770K at less power use? Can anyone honestly say that a 4960X is worth 3 times the cost of a 4770K while performing less in gaming? Plus losing some software benchmarks and consuming more power?

The conclusion pretty much sums it up..

it doesn’t push performance high enough to warrant a big price tag. Any interest in a Core i7-4820K? I’d be more inclined to bet on a -4770K/Z87 platform, if only for the newer chipset’s extra functionality.

We need AMD to bring it with Steamroller .

 

[Boomstick777]

I love a bit of comedy at the end of a post

Haha.

 

[Boomstick777]

FFS im back and forth back and forth between both.What do you guys think is the problem then or reason why boomsticks score jumped?


PCI-E 3.0 on a 780? Boomstick fancy running the same benchmark at PCIE 2.0 on the 4770k? Surely that would not account for a 400 odd jump in gfx score? This is really important to be as Intel now seem to be hinting that Broadwell will not be the Broadwell we expected just from Sandy to IVY they are mentioning LGA sockets again and a Haswell refresh for desktop


And while swayed by the obvious better physics scores (BF4 FPS seems tied to this) the increased GFX performance he got on the same card from 39xx to 4770k has me wondering just if Haswell really is the better choice.If GFX scores really are higher and broadwell comes with another 10% increase then i would go 4770k to be honest.But alas im still confused due to boomstick and the latest broadwell news.Please run the benchmark again boomstick!

I've run it twice already lol.

One system had 3960X @ 4.7Ghz

Other system had 4770K @ 4.6Ghz

The 3960X wins on Physx, the 4770K wins on GPU performance. The overall score is very similar. Same memory, 1600Mhz on Haswell 4770K, 2133Mhz on X79 3960X.

Conclusion:

Haswell is cheaper and faster at gaming, if you want a gaming PC you can't go wrong with 4770K, if you want a workstation type rig go with 4930K on X79. For encoding and things it will be faster. Overall the X79 doesn't justify it's extra price over the 4770K. Save yourself some money and enjoy the extra GPU performance from a Haswell setup. With the money saved you could buy better SSD or GPU..

 

[Boomstick777]

Wccftech have the pre-order pricing info:

Those prices are crazy, makes the 4770K look like the best value CPU ever made

Maybe that was the plan

 

[Boomstick777]

Pre-order price isn't necessarily rrp price.

Still waiting for the actual prices.

Very true, not looking good though as a lot of the leaks we get are pretty near the mark. If those prices are right, there is no way they are justified..

Oh well Haswell -E will be here next year, something to look forward to..

 

[Boomstick777]

I was looking about for the 4770k ocing and found this funning as hell pic called the redneck chiller lol

http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/2231/redneck-cooling.jpg

Haha my next cooling mod

CPUs suck right now.

^^ This. At least we have Haswell -E to look forward to next year.

Haswell -E, Nvidia Maxwell and DDR4..

 

[Boomstick777]

The Bottom Line

The general feeling I come away from the Ivy Bridge-E is that it is a good processor, but nothing stellar when compared to the Sandy Bridge-E predecessor. Is it better? Yes. It is a whole lot better? No. Should you ditch your Sandy Bridge-E system for a shiny new Ivy Bridge-E? No. If you happen to be coming from a sub-4GHz LGA 1366 "Gulftown" system, the Ivy Bridge-E is going to be a big step up. However if you are lucky enough to still be sporting a ~5GHz Gulftown processor, you are likely better off sticking with it.

Oh well, at least Haswell -E is shaping up nicely, a proper upgrade.. 8 cores and DDR4. I'm starting to save my pennies now lol. 4770K is ideal until then ..

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013..._core_i74960x_ipc_ocing_review/6#.UiDLVD8_JEE

 

[Boomstick777]

We've already seen some noticeable frame rate improvement in games with higher than 1600MHz speed memory with the Haswell CPUs due to the improved memory controller, I wonder what kind of performance difference would it make, if Haswell-E got a even better memory controller, and combine with the use of DDR4 memory...

Yeah Haswell -E will come with high speed DDR4 support. Would expect soldered tim, 4,6 or 8 cores for desktop with a decent amount of cache, along with being produced on a very mature process. It would be fair to say Haswell -E is going to be a monster

Rumor is Intel is releasing a separate chipset for new 14nm chips now, so would require a new mobo and possibly no DDR4 for mainstream until Skylake (rumored to be postponed until 2016) Haswell -E is looking like best choice tbh if it plays out like that. Wander if AMD can offer anything near competitive?

 

[Boomstick777]

Here is another hint in reply to one of my posts on Overclock3d

http://forum.overclock3d.net/showpost.php?p=681351&postcount=9

Things are not looking good for IB-E

I'm not sure it really matters tbh, most people are holding off until Haswell -E. We know that's when the real upgrade is going to happen, more cores, much better efficiency and DDR4. Ivy -E is just a stop gap, I doubt even those already on X79 will bother to upgrade, really just not worth it. Save the pennies for Haswell -E imho.

Can AMD strike back in the meantime?

 

[Boomstick777]

The enthusiast PC could become a very limited market in the future, driven only buy the few with the £££ to say mine is faster than yours. people's needs change and with the new consoles due out soon even more will ditch the PC gaming desktop!

I read that research shows the opposite, like the larger the install base of console gamers, especially the younger players, is beneficial for PC gaming. This is because as those gamers mature they gravitate towards the PC. Today's console gamers are likely to become future PC gamers. The PC gaming market is having a massive resurgence atm. Not only in game sales via digital distributors like Steam but also in hardware sales to power the latest games.

While the traditional desktop PC buying market is declining, the graphics and CPU upgrade market is becoming huge, what this means is people are getting smarter, building / upgrading their own PC's rather than buying a pre built unit.

PC gaming has outlived every console made so far.. When PS3 and Xbox 360 are put out to pasture, PC gaming will still be here, better, overall cheaper, and under appreciated

 

[Boomstick777]

I don't really agree what you are saying that the PC has out lived the consoles as you still need to upgrade in order to play newer games at decent settings.

I think you may have missed my point bud, that guy above was saying consoles will replace PC gaming. What I'm saying is for decades people have been saying PC gaming is dead, it's dying etc.. It's still here.. Many consoles have come and gone, and what we see is as console gaming grows in popularity so does PC gaming. With new console growth comes new PC growth as young console gamers turn into older PC gamers.. The trend continues as it has from the start..