4p

[easyrider]

why not compare the Q6600 to an i7 920. Isn't the athlon 620 around the same performance?

No

 

[easyrider]

Read it like Forest GUMP

And with reason: This is pure arrogance imo

The disparity between what is reality and what is the reality you believe is truely astonishing! . . . . I'm sorry to even be having this conversation with you as ultimately the harder you battle against the truth the worse you are making it for yourself and others . . . . You are not demonstrating an unbiased viewpoint and in all ways very little of the words you speak are based in fact . . . . Ignorance is bliss to some but times are changing and there are many truth-seekers out there right now looking with fresh eyes at *imperical* evidence and presenting their factual findings to others, as said already it is not the questions or questioner but rather the falshood of the answers one has been living . . . I have no malice or ill feeling to you at all, I respect you as a fellow forum member and welcome *logical* debate, I will not however be drawn into a circular debate with someone who does not deal in facts . . . . and facts are not three or four benchmarks!

You can't handle the truth

Run Forest Run

 

[ghop]

I still want to know why the hell an i7 920 is being compared with an Athlon II.

 

[easyrider]

I still want to know why the hell an i7 920 is being compared with an Athlon II.

Me to


This WAS BS 2 pages in


Fun though

 

[JonJ678]

I've offered to run whatever benchmarks you name, under whatever circumstances you suggest, in order to bring some new data to the table for this debate. I cannot contribute anything gpu related, but memory/cpu benchmarks I am pleased to contribute to. You may choose hyperthreading on or off, the clock speed and memory settings (within reason), the number of cores active and whether running in single, dual or triple channel mode.

You reacted to this offer by mocking me. May I conclude that you are unwilling to compare your amd system to my intel in benchmarks?

Everest is refusing to behave. Something about needing unsigned drivers to be installed and windows blocking this.

 

[Big.Wayne]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The 620 is indeed a fantastic 'bang for buck' processor and AMD undoubtedly are offering the best' bang for buck' currently

Thank you kindly!

However, this propoganda stuff? Are you telling me that the i5 750 actually isn't a faster than AMDs fastest mainstream offering?

I do not have the huge amount of imperical data at my disposal but who here does? . . . what I do have is an open-mind and an unbiased viewpoint, I do not recognise any external classifications such as low/medium/high end price points as these are determined by myself and myself alone, I am not deferring the logic process to someone I do not know? . . .what if they are stupid? would that not make me stupid also to accept their unquestioned logic? . . . surely the whole low/med/high stuff is nothing more than a dogma? . . . Personally I choose to determine what is and what is not suitable hardware myself through personal experience . . . . benchmarks serve many purposes and not all of them are good, people just need a powerful computer for their own personal tasks and the rules have changed, everything is becoming smaller and cheaper although the corporations do not want this, particularly the Intel® Corporation who have more money than they know what to do with yet they want more still . . . . AMD® has produced a new product designed to bring the ultimate price war to Intel® and I wouldn't be surprised if when this is all over that anyone ever spends more than £100 on a processor ever again!

To assume what I speak of is not the truth is nothing more than a logical fallicy, specifically Argumentum ad antiquitatem ("This is the familiar argument that some policy, behavior, or practice is right or acceptable because "it's always been done that way")

Intel currently rule the higher-midrange and the high end and AMD are doing a great job with their low-midrange processors

As I said before I prefer not to deal with these perceived marketing classifications and look with fresh eyes at product performance and price £££ . . . . the AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620 represents a huge paradigm shift and a lot of people are having great difficulty accepting the rules and principles they have held dear these many years means absolutely nothing . . . I am saddened to see so many people not thinking about a subject logically and instead letting someone else do the thinking for them, it's nothing short of herd-mentality where people just become a sheep and follow the pack without any logic at all . . .

Once you are in possession of enough facts and become more aware of the truth it doesn't matter is 1000 people say otherwise . . . as this has no bearing in the slightest to the truth . . .

I'm not at all familiar with either companies marketing practices and I'm certainly not defending them, but I personally wanted something high end for around 300-350, saw that the [XYZ] didn't cost much more than the equivalent priced AMD setup and had a fair bit more raw power and decided to go for the [XYZ] over less speed and crossfire capability

You show a lot of promise ghop and I'm pleased to see someone vaguely paying attention to the Price/Performance ratio . . . I do think the low/med/high classification is a totally outmoded concept now in 2010 and serves to stimulate sales more than help us, who here has the right to determine what is fast and what is not fast? . . . surely this is entirely subjective?

Surely what you would call Low end is high end to some? . . . Surely what some would call High-end is low end to others? . . . These concepts are not logical and we should stop using them immediately. . . . people are blanket using these terms that are entirely subjective? . . . . . . meanwhile the Corporations continue to rack up the profits!

What I am saying to you is ghop that a AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620 is the *new* baseline that we must use when we look up at more expensive products, as I mentioned already I have just a tri-core version with DDR2 that is not as powerful as the system in my O.P but it absolutely flies . . . really!

People telling me in complete ignorance that this affordable bowl of pea soup is rubbish and tasteless when they have not tasted it or evaluated it in person is a complete absurdity and just goes to demonstrate how lacking in knowledge or fact they are, by all means spend your money how you wish but it would be foolish to write off this new wave of technology as underpowered as its not, I’ve used more hardware than most and even though I am not knowledgeable and know very little I am still capable of critical & logical thinking and observation about the things in front of me if I take the time to study and observe them . . .

The AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620 is the processor to beat (as are its derivatives but I can't mention them as the O.P will tell me off! )

Enjoy your system and if you can take anything useful away from this encounter let is be this . . . . don’t let anyone do your critical thinking for you be they so called expert or whatnot, also if you find yourself doing the same thing as everyone else your probably doing something wrong!

I think I made the right choice. Sure, you could say this current setup is too good for me, but would it have made much sense to go for an [Off Topic] which is better at nothing and costs about the same?

Indeed, ther hardware vista has changed since you looked last, change is coming whether we like it or not, I don't mind as I like it!

Live long and prosper my friend until we meet again!

 

[JonJ678]

EMPIRICAL

You may have missed this [post=15916359]post[/post].

 

[Big.Wayne]

Spam

click to enlarge

Gentlemen,

I would hope to engage with most of you in calm and civil debate however there is an individual present that attempts to thwart my attempts . . . there is no need to *spam* in a good conversation, this thread has been swollen beyond all belief due to this and I ask you to enage me directly if you wish to discuss things *logically* and pay no attention to my learned friend who is not grasping the fundamentals. I ask you this as the O.P and the person who wishes to know the truth about things and I thank you in advance for your co-operation!

 

[JonJ678]

It is impolite to write someone off as spam when you haven't actually read what they've written, as you've got them set to ignore.

[post]15916359[/post]

 

[Big.Wayne]

Off Topic:

It is impolite to write someone off as spam when you haven't actually read what they've written, as you've got them set to ignore

I would say Jon that politeness is a virtue I do possess and perhaps another does not, I am more interested to converse with people that have an open mind and wish to partake in calm and civil debate based around *logic*

There is no need for someone spam in a thread they do not understand ( a single good post would suffice, whos the O.P exactly?) they should go elsewhere and leave those interested to converse and swap points of view and nuggets of wisdom. I particularly like to speak with you Jon as it's a two way process and there is little or no chance of anything becoming heated . . .

Any debate constructed in the spirit of malice or hate will not work, that is why historically threads similar to these do not reach a *logical* conclusion, It may seem like some that perhaps I myself fall foul of this but that is not the truth . . . the truth is I simply want a better deal for everyone and if given the chance to conduct this discussion with yourself and all the other great minds on this forum I believe we can make a breakthrough!

Please forgive me if I am prone to a spelling mistake here and there but as long as you know what I am meaning let us not digress from the main point!

• INTEL® Core™ i7 920
• AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620
  [*]Price/Performance ratio
  

 

[bigjimmyauk]

BANG FOR BUCK = AMD
EXTREME PERFORMANCE AT COST =INTEL

Can we please just end this thread now it's gone on way to long for anyone to care now it's like the wayne and easy show and half the reason i visit to read the new banter

 

[easyrider]

Off Topic:


I would say Jon that politeness is a virtue I do possess and perhaps another does not, I am more interested to converse with people that have an open mind and wish to partake in calm and civil debate based around *logic*

I have an open mind

My points have been clear enough

However you spout "ignore easy" But then engage yourself?

Reason being...I tell it how its is. Performance truth. Without malice, or favour.

Thats the bottom line.

I'll embrace technology at the drop of a hat.

I will denounce BS claims

Wayne your AMD spin is BS

A punter can get faster gaming in i3 for the same money

Prove me wrong and i will go away.

Fact is...you cannot

 

[bigjimmyauk]

I have an open mind

My points have been clear enough

However you spout "ignore easy" But then engage yourself?

Reason being...I tell it how its is. Performance truth. Without malice, or favour.

Thats the bottom line.

I'll embrace technology at the drop of a hat.

I will denounce BS claims

Wayne your AMD spin is BS

A punter can get faster gaming in i3 for the same money

Prove me wrong and i will go away.

Fact is...you cannot

and what happens in say 6moths to a year when maybe some games wil use more than 2 cores well then your ******

 

[easyrider]

and what happens in say 6moths to a year when maybe some games wil use more than 2 cores well then your ******

HT


You know what this is right?

 

[coupe69]

The problem is Big Wayne, that these forums I would say is predominantly full of computer hardware enthusiasts that play games and carry out other cpu intensive tasks,

this is why you're hitting a bit of a brick wall with the majority of people here.


Whilst the AMD Athlon II X4 620 cpu maybe perfectly acceptable in terms of performance for what you want to do,

it may not be good enough for the hardcore gamer or even just somebody that wants the most frames per second for their money,

especially when you consider for just a few pounds more you can buy the core i3 530 which will give you better peformance in games.



Getting sort of back on topic, I guess if you wanted a cheap cpu for encoding, then the AMD Athlon II X4 620 will do if you're a little bit skint,

but this is the only situation that I could possibly recommend the AMD chip over an Intel offering.

 

[bigjimmyauk]

HOW ABOUT THAT ONE DON'T SEE THE I3 ******* ON THE 620'S FIRE THERE

i can't link the site but they are such a close match it's hardly worth squinting at

like how the linked picture is being blocked FFS copied to photo sharing site if that gets removed there must be a intel fanboy mod in here

 

[Big.Wayne]

Off Topic:

Some words for you my friend . . . I extended the olive branch to you in an effort to make peace but you have thrown it back in my face, I cannot conduct what should be a *logical* conversation with the continued hatred you throw at me and those around me . . . I'm sorry but you do not possess the right stuff to help make this thread a success . . .

Reason being...I tell it how its is. Performance truth. Without malice, or favour

I'm sorry if this conversation is beyond your grasp, your contributions are unwanted and I would prefere it if you would stop spamming this debate with your non logic . . . .

I will denounce BS claims

Logical fallacy:Argumentum ad hominem

please address the topic and leave me out of it . . .

Wayne your AMD spin is BS

Logical fallacy:Argumentum ad hominem

A punter can get faster gaming in i3 for the same money

Logical fallacy:Argumentum ad ignorantiam

Please keep on topic and if you wish to demonstrate your burden of proof please make yourself a a new thread to supply your evidence . . .

Prove me wrong and i will go away.

Logical fallacy:Argumentum ad ignorantiam

Except you wrongly attempting to place the Burden of proof upon me when it is you who are making the claims . . . . not to mention your flagrant dispect for my O.P, you have no understanding of netiquette and no respect for my post . . .

Fact is...you cannot

You don't understand how logic works my friend, you make the claims you dish up a mountain of evidence (Burden of proof) in a *new* thread. Kindly leave this thread immediately before you are banned from these forums!

To Everyone Else:
If you feel at any point easyrider is being rude/aggressive or making a personal attack against you then please do not respond to him directly and report the matter to the forum moderators by click this button! . . it is the only way we can continue this discussion in peace and quiet and there is no other choice!

 

[JonJ678]

I've offered to run whatever benchmarks you name, under whatever circumstances you suggest, in order to bring some new data to the table for this debate. I cannot contribute anything gpu related, but memory/cpu benchmarks I am pleased to contribute to. You may choose hyperthreading on or off, the clock speed and memory settings (within reason), the number of cores active and whether running in single, dual or triple channel mode.

I've lost track of what processor you're using. I thought it was the athlon tri core equivalent to the x4 620, but earlier in this thread you stated that you're using the processor under debate. If you have the quad core, then please let us assemble some benchmarks under relatively controlled conditions. If you have the tri core, then I remain certain that my i7 with a core turned off vs your tri core will yield results that can be directly mapped onto the processors under discussion here.

It's hard to be sure if you're ignoring this repeated offer because you've deemed it off topic or because you have a suspicion the i7 will walk all over your athlon. Personally I don't mind which one comes out on top in which areas, I've got the one best suited to my purposes. However I'm likely to be building for someone else in the nearish future, in which case if amd can outpace intels offerings at a price point I want to know it. So, will you offer your chip up for scrutiny?


Would you be so kind as to quote the section in the forum rules which justifies the above attack on Easy?

 

[easyrider]

Off Topic:

Some words for you my friend . . . I extended the olive branch to you in an effort to make peace but you have thrown it back in my face, I cannot conduct what should be a *logical* conversation with the continued hatred you throw at me and those around me . . . I'm sorry but you do not possess the right stuff to help make this thread a success . . .

No, You take it personally when in fact It has nothing to do you with you at all.

i3 is faster than Athlon II in games (end of)

I'm sorry if this conversation is beyond your grasp, your contributions are unwanted and I would prefere it if you would stop spamming this debate with your non logic . . . .

Like all public speakers in a public forum.Sometimes the truth is unwanted

Except you wrongly attempting to place the Burden of proof upon me when it is you who are making the claims . . . . not to mention your flagrant dispect for my O.P, you have no understanding of netiquette and no respect for my post . . .

eh?

You don't understand how logic works my friend, you make the claims you dish up a mountain of evidence (Burden of proof) in a *new* thread. Kindly leave this thread immediately before you are banned from these forums!

Eh?

To Everyone Else:
If you feel at any point easyrider is being rude/aggressive or making a personal attack against you then please do not respond to him directly and report the matter to the forum moderators by click this button! . . it is the only way we can continue this discussion in peace and quiet and there is no other choice!

Wayne I'm talking facts thats all. Deal with it

 

[Big.Wayne]

The problem is Big Wayne, that these forums I would say is predominantly full of computer hardware enthusiasts that play games and carry out other cpu intensive tasks

Hello coupe69,

I do not recognise you as an authority to discern the population of these forums or indeed the way they use their computers. I am most amused at your belittling innuendo that some of us don't perform CPU intensive tasks!

I do believe you under-estimate me and perhaps feel I don't merit the "hardware enthusiasts" tag because I do not spend several hundred pounds on my computer? . . . is that right or?

I would advise you in future to speak only on behalf of yourself . . . and yourself only!

this is why you're hitting a bit of a brick wall with the majority of people here

Speak for yourself coupe69, you are an individual correct? or are you somehow part of a borg syndicate

Whilst the AMD Athlon II X4 620 cpu maybe perfectly acceptable in terms of performance for what you want to doit may not be good enough for the hardcore gamer or even just somebody that wants the most frames per second for their money

coupe69, I am wondering how is your mathematics? . . .truth be told mine is pretty terrible but I know enough to get by . . . what you are failing to grasp here is that from the limited data I have presented to you it does indeed seem that a gamer is going to get *maximum* value for money by building a Propus system! . . . I would urge you to re-examine the benchmarks posted and those still out there I haven't posted and re-consider what you think you know . . . none of this is intended to be a personal attack against you although you seem to be taking it very personally . . . .

Being a "hardware enthusiast" does not solely mean spending a large amount of money on hardware that on the whole is superfluous to ones needs, it can also mean one is enthusiastic about hardware . . . any hardware, we should be allowed to enjoy the whole spectrum without certain people being made to feel inadequate if they don’t have the most expensive hardware, it's not right and it's not fair, is it not enough that you have a great computer?

This ePeen culture is getting *ridiculous*, I mean seriously cmon what’s that all about?

Bottom line is you could have that AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620 system under your bonnet right now, overclocked and tweaked up you would be enjoying everything that you do now . . . where is the logic in spending double unless you are a benchmarker/scientist? . . . . it's a killer fast system with great upgrade potential for the *genuine* "hardware enthusiasts" . . . the more people that buy it and recommend it the sooner we start getting a better deal from Intel®

It's a wonderful bit of kit mate and my brain boggles how this can be selling at such a low price . . .you have a problem comprehending this as you have been trained into Price-Points and equate price directly to performance, this is not logical and is the basis of this thread (which you still don't understand!) . . .

especially when you consider for just a few pounds more you can buy the core [XYZ] which will give you better performance in games

Your making a statement which is a logical fallacy, specifically Argumentum ad ignorantiam (This is the fallacy of assuming something is true simply because it hasn't been proven false)

There is nothing logical about what you have just said, you have not supplied the burden of proof? . . . if you wanted to serve your community and make us all adore you you would need to create a new tread based around product [XYZ] and supply the Burden Of Proof (i.e facts + facts + facts)

Anything else is just waffle I'm afraid, waffle that is not helped by your subjective bias on the subject . . . your are either part of the solution or part of the problem and right now coupe69 you are part of the problem!

Getting sort of back on topic, I guess if you wanted a cheap cpu for encoding, then the AMD Athlon II X4 620 will do if you're a little bit skint

Oh dear, what is this? . . . That's an aweful thing to say man? . . . seriously do you think an ePeen is something to be proud off? . . . . to waggle around "Mines bigger than yours!" lol

I think you have missed the point of the overclocking scene entirely and being a "hardware enthusiasts" is in no way related to the amount of money you spend on your kit!

All I am doing mate is letting people know how great the new AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620 and if you build a system around one of these and slap in the extra budget to a real nice GOU you will be laughing . . . . you should be happy things are getting cheaper but for your own good reasons your not showing the Propus a lot of love!

but this is the only situation that I could possibly recommend the AMD chip over an Intel offering.

coupe69, your in no real position to recommend any hardware to anyone, the reason being you are biased (possible Intel®Fanboy?) and not in possesion of many facts, the way you talk and look down at the AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620 is laughable? . . . I mean you didn't use one and have not much idea how they perform yet you profess great authority? . . . out of interest where does this great knowledge of hardware come from? . . . I've never heard of you before this thread but here you are bold as brass telling people what is and what is not good hardware? . . . forgive me for saying but is there any chance your knowledge of hardware is not very much or very little?

coupe69, I would prefer not to have any beef with you but I urge you to not keep detracting from my original topic with your constant talks of other products, you are free to make a new thread and wax lyrical about any hardware you like but in the spirit of netiquette I would ask you kindly to please respect my thread and if you post further please do so *on Topic* and with facts . . .deal?

• AMD® Athlon™ II X4
• Intel® Core™ i7

Show me the performance advantage of the processors above in things that you do please . . . . Anything else is off topic (make a new thread!)


Off Topic:

This all reminds me a little of Billing (remember him?) trying to convince himself that an 8600GT was good enough for gaming

I do remember it well, the guy is a *Legend* and I use some of his phrases to this date . . . . "Oh some nice action going on here" etc etc . . . made me smile a lot watching his videos and I loved the bit where he showed the LGA775 CPU with what looked like a large metallic dung sitting on the top!

I was absolutely appalled by the huge amount of **** taking and hatred that was expressed towards him? . . . poor guy, he was absolutely harmless and just enjoy being a "hardware enthusiast" and "Gamer" and in no way did he deserve to be run off the forums, shame on OcUK forums I say and I would like to see half those people that crucified him have the guts to make a video of themselves and post it up!