5090 Price

[kute]

As a guy who has been pure PC gamer since 1999, you're underrated the PS5 up there - for one, a 3900x is essentially a new cpu above 1080p, but more importantly - developers develop purely for the PS5 hardware. You probably have to be overpowering a console like 50% before you overtake that everything has been exactified to run on that exact hardware combination

Now a computer can do so much more, so it's unfair to price one against a console - but for pure gaming, $$$ wise it's not even an competition. You'd have to be doubling the console's price in just the GPU alone before you'd notice an improvement in graphics. There's no way to compensate for that kind of pricing.

Although with that said, I'm so far out of the console loop I don't know if you can only play that current gen games, because one of the best things about gaming is being able to load up ancient games like Doom 2, which still plays incredibly well, and still has a thriving community making amazing content for it. I don't know if that's a thing on consoles. GZDoom and unlimited wads. No idea. Or emulation. No idea.

 

[brostradamus]

Although with that said, I'm so far out of the console loop I don't know if you can only play that current gen games, because one of the best things about gaming is being able to load up ancient games like Doom 2, which still plays incredibly well, and still has a thriving community making amazing content for it. I don't know if that's a thing on consoles. GZDoom and unlimited wads. No idea. Or emulation. No idea.

consoles now are backward compatible ever since they shifted to x86, so ps5 can play ps4 games, and this is expected to be the trend for few more generations till arm takes over
mods are still not easy to find/develop
but overall anyone entrenched in the pc system cannot make a shift to consoles in the current state, though microsoft has deployed a one platform strategy, but it will still be a while before you could consider xbox as a viable substitute for pc

 

[ICDP]

You neglect to acknowledge that this backward compatibility trend is demanded by consumers. They don't want their extensive and expensive game backlog to become useless.

You also seem to conflate backwards compatibility with lower standards. This is not the case in my experience and even on PC older games still work on new hardware.

Backward compatibility does not necessarily constrain developers from innovation. Developer laziness and failure to optimise and innovate is a far bigger issue in gaming. It’s also not helped by the gaming press being so easily pleased and accepting of dross (performance/optimisation), or just purely generic games.

2022 GOTY - Elden Ring
2023 GOTY - BG3
2024 GOTY - Astro Bot

Nuff said.

To keep it on topic, the developers get a free pass with their **** poor optimisation because they can rely on a 4090 or 5090 to power through.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

At £800 budget it's pretty easy. Remember the PS5 pro is still using a 3600 CPU equivalent which is very low end nowadays, even a 5600 that goes for around £80 blows it away and the extra £100 is easily made up for with no online fees.

The PS5 PRO uses an RTX4070/RX7800XT class dGPU. But it also uses RT features from RDNA4.

The B580 is barely an RX6700XT class card and the PS5 used an RX6650XT/RX6700 level dGPU with upto 12GB of VRAM.

The PS5 digital has been available frequently for under £350 now and many people I know just play single player games on theirs. I have also noticed in the last two years games frequently now cheaper on consoles.

I never had a PlayStation or XBox myself,but the stagnation in PC dGPU pricing in the mainstream has messed up things a lot.

The RTX4070 should have been the RTX4060TI we got at under £400.

 

[harmattan]

The PS5 PRO uses an RTX4070 class dGPU.

The B580 is barely an RX6700XT class card and the PS5 used an RX6650XT/RX6700 level dGPU with upto 12GB of VRAM.

The PS5 is available for under £350 now and many people I know just play single player games on theirs. I have also noticed in the last two years frequently games are now cheaper on consoles.

I never had a PlayStation or XBox myself,but the stagnation in PC dGPU pricing in the mainstream has messed up things a lot.

The RTX4070 should have been the RTX4060TI we got at under £400.

I wouldn't say the GPU in the PS5 Pro is 4070-class: it's a step down, essentially a 7700xt with extra instructions and 16GB VRAM. It's quite anemic for a console refresh, but the near-5700xt in the PS5 was already a bit long in the tooth on release.

But yes, the GPU shrinkflation/stagnation/ultra-segmentation in recent years has hurt everyone, PC and console gamers alike.

 

[TNA]

Yes, the new 5000 series will feature DLSS 4. They could probably add support for older cards but they're guaranteed to find an excuses for excluding their existing customers. Nvidia make me so mad and angry.

True.

You know what else? AMD could be pricing their GPU's properly rather than copying nvidia and giving us a small discount over their offerings.

AMD make me so mad and angry

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I wouldn't say the GPU in the PS5 Pro is 4070-class: it's a step down, essentially a 7700xt with extra instructions and 16GB VRAM. It's quite anemic for a console refresh, but the near-5700xt in the PS5 was already a bit long in the tooth on release.

But yes, the GPU shrinkflation/stagnation/ultra-segmentation in recent years has hurt everyone, PC and console gamers alike.

The 7800XT has 37.32 TFLOPs FP32:

AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2430 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2438 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

The PS5 PRO has 36.10 TFLOPs FP32:

AMD Playstation 5 Pro GPU Specs

AMD Viola, 2350 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

The RX7800XT trades blows with the RTX4070.The PS5 PRO dGPU also uses RDNA4 features,especially with RT so is a step-up,so you are not taking into consideration RDNA4 improvments.

Also,the PS5 and the XBOX series dGPU wasn't long in the teeth. They both used essentially RDNA2 dGPUs,in an era when the GTX1060 and GTX1660 were the top cards on Steam. This is what the hardware survey looked two years after the launch in 2022:

In pure TFLOPs the PS5 PRO dGPU was around RX6600XT/RX6700 level so is faster than an RX5700XT. The XBox was technically faster. You get RT and other improvements.

For the launch price they blew away PCs which could be had for a similar the price,especially as most gaming PCs are prebuilt. Even the RTX2060 and laptop RTX3060 had less VRAM and were not more powerful.

For example the laptop RTX4060 is represented on Steam more than the desktop one.

Prebuilt desktops with an RTX4060 are £600 to £700. To get a prebuilt gamig PC better than a PS5 PRO,you would need to spend around £1000 or more.

Console hardware due to its fixed nature can be optimised better than PC and that was from me talking to some games devs myself. People are not taking into consideration Windows and the additional driver overhead - at launch Ada Lovelace test systems needed a CPU upgrade. The consoles also use fixed function hardware to offload some of their functions.

As a person who buys mainstream cards,that stagnation is real especially in pre-built systems. If we stuck with the improvements we saw with Maxwell,Pascal and Ampere this wouldn't be a conversation. Sadly,as some people said here,Nvidia and AMD want mainstream gamers to spend console money on a whole dGPU.

 

[brostradamus]

you cant compare raw teraflops, because i remember the rdna3 had a theoretical max that assumes 2:1 throughput on the base shader count (it could theoretically perform 2 shader ops per unit per clock), but it was never achieved irl.. infact it turned out to be a big flop and the finewine drivers never came

edit:
reference 4070: 29.15 TFLOPS
also the ps5 pro chip seems to have 33% less ROPs than the 7800xt, it cant be in the same class given theres no change in clock speeds either

 

[harmattan]

True.

You know what else? AMD could be pricing their GPU's properly rather than copying nvidia and giving us a small discount over their offerings.

AMD make me so mad and angry

AMD has obviously lost perspective. If I was to venture to guess, they're suffering from "my chlld is worth more" syndrome mixed with (fallicious) logic that if they bring down the price on their cards, they'll never be able to bring them back up once they have competitive parity.

They need to take a realpolitik approach: price at a level that will actually gain them market share. There's real opportunity here with RDNA4, but I suspect AMD is going to do what they (nearly) aways do and price right smack in the zone where people will almost invariably pick nV.

The 7800XT has 37.32 TFLOPs FP32:

AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2430 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2438 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

The PS5 PRO has 36.10 TFLOPs FP32:

AMD Playstation 5 Pro GPU Specs

AMD Viola, 2350 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

The RX7800XT trades blows with the RTX4070.
The PS5 PRO dGPU also uses RDNA4 features,especially with RT so is a step-up,so you are not taking into consideration RDNA4 improvments.

Also,the PS5 and the XBOx series dGPU wasn't long in the teeth. They both used essentially RDNA2 dGPUs,in an era when the GTX1060 and GTX1660 were the top cards on Steam. This is what the hardware survey looked two years after the launch:

For the launch price they blew away PCs which could be had for the price,especially as most gaming PCs are prebuilt. For example the laptop RTX4060 is represented on Steam more than the desktop one1

To get a prebuilt gamig PC better than a PS5 PRO,you would need to spend around £1000.

Glass half full vs glass half empty PS5 pro's Viola Oberon is technically closer in TFLOPS to a 7700xt which is 35.17. The TDP drags it down despite the 7800xt-like specs with reduced ROPs.

AMD Radeon RX 7700 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2544 MHz, 3456 Cores, 216 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 12288 MB GDDR6, 2250 MHz, 192 bit

www.techpowerup.com

On the original PS5, I'm coming from historical view where consoles launched with near enthusiast-level GPUs, not lower midrange. Taken in isolation, the near-6700 in the PS5 was quite low on the totem pole even in November 2020. No disputing the cost advantage of consoles over the equivalent PC, albeit this degrades with every generation.

 

[TNA]

They need to take a realpolitik approach: price at a level that will actually gain them market share. There's real opportunity here with RDNA4, but I suspect AMD is going to do what they (nearly) aways do and price right smack in the zone where people will almost invariably pick nV.

Well, apparently they want to go after market share this time, so they may surprise us for once. Let's see.

 

[Joxeon]

5090 launch price: 4 Elephants

 

[brostradamus]

Well, apparently they want to go after market share this time, so they may surprise us for once. Let's see.

amd's not a budget brand
just check their latest motherboard prices, if you are not convinced
same old trick, amd has already punched 0.95* in the calculator and are waiting for the competitor's number before they can press = for the final result

 

[TNA]

amd's not a budget brand
just check their latest motherboard prices, if you are not convinced
same old trick, amd has already punched 0.95* in the calculator and are waiting for the competitor's number before they can press = for the final result

Good for them. Might aswell keep buying nvidia if that's their strategy then.

AMD make me so mad and angry

 

[rare]

5090 launch price: 4 Elephants

I’ve only got one and a half. Back half, if it matters.

 

[hornetstinger]

Do modern motherboards support sli/crossfire? My old 1366 had crossfire support.

 

[adidan]

Do modern motherboards support sli/crossfire? My old 1366 had crossfire support.

Not a thing anymore afaik.

 

[rare]

Do modern motherboards support sli/crossfire? My old 1366 had crossfire support.

Some AM4 boards did. I don’t think AM5 or equivalent Intel boards do? You can still run multi GPU setups for professional tasks, but there hasn’t been Crossfire or SLI support for years driver wise.

You can run 3090’s in SLI but it would be a horrible setup for gaming, wouldn’t make any sense at all.

 

[Nitefly]

Re: PS5 there’s also an argument over how much of a difference in graphics is needed for it to become ‘worthwhile’ to game on PC from a value perspective.

Everyone is different, but PC games ought to look distinctly better for it to be worthwhile IMO. I’m not sure that better FPS marginal gains is ‘enough’ to justify it.

So how much money do you need to spend to make it look ‘distinctly better’ than a PS5? PS5 games don’t look ‘bad’ so the answer is… you need to spend quite a lot, unfortunately.

I’d probably stick with a console and a cheap laptop for browsing if I was on a budget.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

True.

You know what else? AMD could be pricing their GPU's properly rather than copying nvidia and giving us a small discount over their offerings.

AMD make me so mad and angry

They tried lowering prices before. The RX 580 was much cheaper and faster, yet the GTX 1060 became the best selling card ever. If the consumer doesn't care about the cost or the performance, then it's all about the brand, which is so sad.

If AMD are destined to get very low sales regardless of price, they may as well price them high and still get very low sales.

I'd be surprised if Radeon aren't operating at a loss. All gamers should be very concerned about the future because Nvidia's prices will keep rising due to a lack of competition.

 

[TNA]

They tried lowering prices before. The RX 580 was much cheaper and faster. Yet the GTX 1060 became the best selling card ever. If the consumer doesn't care about the cost or the performance, then it's all about the brand, which is so sad.

If AMD are destined to get very low sales regardless of price, they may as well price them high and still get very low sales.

I'd be surprised if Radeon aren't operating at a loss. All gamers should be very concerned about the future because Nvidia's prices will keep rising due to a lack of competition.

When Nvidia do it, you get upset and angry. AMD do it, suddenly loads of reasons to justify it.

Full of bias. Makes me so mad and angry

Makes me laugh actually. Nvifia release a card, you guys say it is priced ludicrously. AMD release there's not long after for 50-100 cheaper and suddenly it is good. What...