5900x or 5800x for gaming?

Joxeon · 22 Oct 2020 at 16:45

alec said:
Didn't say faster, but better. As currently 3600X is within 3% from 3950X in games, at third of price, similarly performance for 5600X should be very close, at much lower price
And 5800X might end up on top in some games despite lower clocks

Well I certainly wouldn't spend 300 quid on a 6 core CPU in 2020/2021 especially if I planned to keep the CPU for any length of time.

clv101 · 22 Oct 2020 at 16:58

Joxeon said:
Well I certainly wouldn't spend 300 quid on a 6 core CPU in 2020/2021 especially if I planned to keep the CPU for any length of time.

If you're only interested in games, I think this is a mistake. Anything above a 5600X is likely to offer very little (nothing noticeable?) in games for hundreds of pounds more.

Mr Oblong · 22 Oct 2020 at 17:07

alec said:
There hasn't been asymmetric CCX cpu ever. Don't think 8+4 is even technically possible. And windows scheduler would make a mess of it anyway

5600X > 5800X > 5900X for a gaming machine

Why 5600X > 5800X?

5800X is still a unified CCX, has higher clocks and more cores.

phil-k said:
I wonder if any of the youtube reviewers will get a sample earlier than Nov 5th to test

I'd be very surprised if they don't.

alec · 22 Oct 2020 at 17:24

Mr Oblong said:
Why 5600X > 5800X?

5800X is still a unified CCX, has higher clocks and more cores.

Because cheaper and almost same perf

Stu · 22 Oct 2020 at 17:31

Those

Joxeon said:
18:20-18:45 from the official ryzen 5000 reveal both Robert Hallock and Lisa Su states the 5900X is the best gaming processor in the world so it would look rather odd if the 5600/5800X are faster in games.

Only like 1~2 fps so not really an issue, ashes shows a 6% boost but I'm guessing it scales better with the extra cores and maybe the same for total war.

Those results are at 1080p... I doubt many people getting these chips are using a 1080p monitor... the performance difference will be even smaller at higher res. (Before someone says, some people will be using 1080p at 240Hz, but I think this will be a minority.)

Alex h · 22 Oct 2020 at 17:47

clv101 said:
If you're only interested in games, I think this is a mistake. Anything above a 5600X is likely to offer very little (nothing noticeable?) in games for hundreds of pounds more.

I'm inclined to agree at this moment

Mr Oblong · 22 Oct 2020 at 18:07

alec said:
Because cheaper and almost same perf

Ah okay, but strictly speaking it will be slower.

Just wanted to clarify that your rating was value based, because it this world of CCXs it can be unclear.

Joxeon · 22 Oct 2020 at 18:12

Stu said:
Those

Those results are at 1080p... I doubt many people getting these chips are using a 1080p monitor... the performance difference will be even smaller at higher res. (Before someone says, some people will be using 1080p at 240Hz, but I think this will be a minority.)

If your not at 1080p then there is no reason to spend the extra on zen 3 over zen 2 and instead put the extra cash into the next tier of GPU which will give more FPS unless your already on a 3080/3090.

Rom · 24 Oct 2020 at 12:33

Mr Oblong said:
Compare the 3100 vs the 3300X to see the difference a unified CCX can make.

Benches will tell us more, but it's potentially a solid factor.

I went away and did this. the 3300x was 20-30% better in games vs the 3100.
But, the 3900x and the 3950x beat the 3300x. So not thinking about 'value' the top end ones are the 'best' performers for games still from what I make of it. Just to a lot of people, they are probably looking for best bang for buck.

So if I have this right

5600x = 6 cores on single CCX
5800x = 8 cores on single CCX
5900x = 12 cores 6 on each CCX
5950x = 16 cores 8 on each CCX

I know nothing of how these work essentially. Lets say an application is designed for 6 cores. Would the 5900x use 6 on one CCX as its fastest? Or would it just randomly use 6 from anywhere?
Same for the 5950x with an 8 core application. Will it use all one one CCX? Which could mean the 5950 is worth its premium as it would run 8 core stuff better?
Im guessing not, for heat as one idea. As I said, I know very little. I just play games, and can build my own rig to do so. Im not that clued up on the really tech stuff.

But if I can take the 3xxx series as a reference. Regardless of the makeup, the top end ones are going to win, assuming I dont care about value. I havent seen anything so far, where the 3300x beats the 3900x in games, even though the 3900x may only be beating it by 3-20 fps in what Ive seen (some are much higher but 1080p low etc)
The frame time, which I think is the important factor, and what multiple CCX could increase? Seems to be about the same too, only varying by 1-2 ns, and to be fair, its both way, sometimes the 3900x is lower, it obviously fluctuates so much.

Mr Oblong · 24 Oct 2020 at 12:44

Rom said:
I went away and did this. the 3300x was 20-30% better in games vs the 3100.
But, the 3900x and the 3950x beat the 3300x. So not thinking about 'value' the top end ones are the 'best' performers for games still from what I make of it. Just to a lot of people, they are probably looking for best bang for buck.

So if I have this right

5600x = 6 cores on single CCX
5800x = 8 cores on single CCX
5900x = 12 cores 6 on each CCX
5950x = 16 cores 8 on each CCX

I know nothing of how these work essentially. Lets say an application is designed for 6 cores. Would the 5900x use 6 on one CCX as its fastest? Or would it just randomly use 6 from anywhere?
Same for the 5950x with an 8 core application. Will it use all one one CCX? Which could mean the 5950 is worth its premium as it would run 8 core stuff better?
Im guessing not, for heat as one idea. As I said, I know very little. I just play games, and can build my own rig to do so. Im not that clued up on the really tech stuff.

But if I can take the 3xxx series as a reference. Regardless of the makeup, the top end ones are going to win, assuming I dont care about value. I havent seen anything so far, where the 3300x beats the 3900x in games, even though the 3900x may only be beating it by 3-20 fps in what Ive seen (some are much higher but 1080p low etc)
The frame time, which I think is the important factor, and what multiple CCX could increase? Seems to be about the same too, only varying by 1-2 ns, and to be fair, its both way, sometimes the 3900x is lower, it obviously fluctuates so much.

I can't answer all your questions about core/CCX allocation, hopefully it'd be intelligent with it.

The 3300x vs the 3900x is just one more core per CCX, clocked lower and with less cache. So yeah it's slower, but it's a pretty low-end chip.

With higher end chips going to that design, the gaps might well change (although the 5900x benefits from having 2x6 vs 3x4, so it's not exactly losing out).

Joxeon · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:23

Rom said:
I went away and did this. the 3300x was 20-30% better in games vs the 3100.
But, the 3900x and the 3950x beat the 3300x. So not thinking about 'value' the top end ones are the 'best' performers for games still from what I make of it. Just to a lot of people, they are probably looking for best bang for buck.

So if I have this right

5600x = 6 cores on single CCX
5800x = 8 cores on single CCX
5900x = 12 cores 6 on each CCX
5950x = 16 cores 8 on each CCX

I know nothing of how these work essentially. Lets say an application is designed for 6 cores. Would the 5900x use 6 on one CCX as its fastest? Or would it just randomly use 6 from anywhere?
Same for the 5950x with an 8 core application. Will it use all one one CCX? Which could mean the 5950 is worth its premium as it would run 8 core stuff better?
Im guessing not, for heat as one idea. As I said, I know very little. I just play games, and can build my own rig to do so. Im not that clued up on the really tech stuff.

But if I can take the 3xxx series as a reference. Regardless of the makeup, the top end ones are going to win, assuming I dont care about value. I havent seen anything so far, where the 3300x beats the 3900x in games, even though the 3900x may only be beating it by 3-20 fps in what Ive seen (some are much higher but 1080p low etc)
The frame time, which I think is the important factor, and what multiple CCX could increase? Seems to be about the same too, only varying by 1-2 ns, and to be fair, its both way, sometimes the 3900x is lower, it obviously fluctuates so much.

I still expect the 12 and 16 core cpus to be better for gaming even if the gap is only small.

Even the 6 core 3600 beats the 3300X in most games with a slight clock speed and latency disadvantage so I would certainly expect the higher clocking 12 and 16 core zen 3 to be the best.

amd7674 · 24 Oct 2020 at 19:14

i just flashed with my kids two MSI Tomahawk x570 without CPU with zen3 BIOS, everything went smooth. BTW... The x570 chipset fan is a noisy at full speed LOL. At the moment I'm leaning toward buying two 5900x CPUs.... overkill but with some headroom/future proof. They should be set for the next 5 years with potential GPU upgrade in 2-3 years...

Rom · 24 Oct 2020 at 20:35

Joxeon said:
I still expect the 12 and 16 core cpus to be better for gaming even if the gap is only small.

Even the 6 core 3600 beats the 3300X in most games with a slight clock speed and latency disadvantage so I would certainly expect the higher clocking 12 and 16 core zen 3 to be the best.

Yeah, I think this is going to be the case. Looking at the 3xxx range, the 3900 and 3950 are benching better in games mostly than any of the others. Even if it is only a few fps. I dont mind spending the money, I know they arent the best 'value'. I can live with that, just as long as the 5600 or 5800 dont pull more fps

Which if they are anything like the 3xxx, they wont.
Hoping some benchmarks come out before they go on sale so I can be sure.

Chaos666 · 24 Oct 2020 at 21:01

alex h said:
I'm inclined to agree at this moment

6 cores is fine for gaming at the moment... but it might change soon with consoles rockin' 8cores cpu's
i still think that desktop 6core chips will do alright as they are clocked higher then consoles

Alex h · 24 Oct 2020 at 21:10

Chaos666 said:
6 cores is fine for gaming at the moment... but it might change soon with consoles rockin' 8cores cpu's
i still think that desktop 6core chips will do alright as they are clocked higher then consoles

I think it will change but not as quick as people think maybe 3 to 4 years time the thing with the ryzen cpu is you can upgrade easily if and when you need with out changing motherboard and probably cheaper buying second hand as people upgrade to newer tech

Chaos666 · 24 Oct 2020 at 21:18

i agree..
and I hope I will be able to wait with me 8700k to next generation from amd and intel :>

Subzero85 · 25 Oct 2020 at 04:04

would upgrading offer much improvement from a ryzen 3900 x at base clock ? i personally do not overclock, does it offer much improvement, little concerned that the newer 5000 chips have a lower base clock than ryzens 3900x 3.80 ghz, thanks for any help

Scooby-DoobyDoo · 25 Oct 2020 at 08:37

Joxeon said:
If your not at 1080p then there is no reason to spend the extra on zen 3 over zen 2 and instead put the extra cash into the next tier of GPU which will give more FPS unless your already on a 3080/3090.

Spot on advice. Tomb Raider games seem to push most systems. I went from a 2600x to 3700x (Paid £285 New Aug 2019). Now it's £430 for an eight core. Better to go for a GPU upgrade!

jigger · 25 Oct 2020 at 09:27

Scooby-DoobyDoo said:
Spot on advice. Tomb Raider games seem to push most systems. I went from a 2600x to 3700x (Paid £285 New Aug 2019). Now it's £430 for an eight core. Better to go for a GPU upgrade!

It would be good advice if it was accurate, and actually good advice. Unfortunately it’s neither of those. It’s a horribly over simplified answer to a complicated problem.

old gamer · 25 Oct 2020 at 10:56

Joxeon said:
If your not at 1080p then there is no reason to spend the extra on zen 3 over zen 2 and instead put the extra cash into the next tier of GPU which will give more FPS unless your already on a 3080/3090.

I have been looking to upgrade my ryzen 1700 to a 3700x but as I game on a 38" ultrawide I'm not so sure it's worth it.
I found a vid on youtube testing a nvidia 3080 and at 4k my gains would be between 6 to 10 fps.
My monitor is freesync 75hz so now seems a bit pointless as I can put the money into a better gpu