9/11 - Controlled demolition?

[Fr0dders]

Because Building 7 was made in exactly the same way as towers 1&2 and fell in exactly the same way, despite suffering minimal damage.

like i said, considering the minimal damage, im willing to accept the conspiracy theory that they had a controlled demolition

but considering that WTC1 and 2 had already come down, so what if they demolished it ?

also, doing a lot of reading, there appears to be 4 separate conspiracy theories.

1) the pentago crash - this i believe, Where the hell did all the plane wreckage go ?

2) WTC 1 and 2 were demolished. - this is BS, all of it can be seen on footage showing the impact, the resulting fire, and the resulting collapse. The numerous explosions can be explained by the fact its a 757. There are lots of things to go boom in it, not just fuel. As for the dust - air pressure. Press down on something, the airs gotta go somewhere, it will either spit out the side, as seen in the video, or go up. Not that hard to understand

3) the "have a go hero's" of 911 - didnt just just use the phones that were on the plane. Yes they cost a lot, but surely if you're gonna die you dont care whats on your mastercard bil.

4) Building 7 - not sure on this, the image posted further back shows severe damage to the building after WTC1 and WTC2 collapsed.


My theory - the pentago crash was all indeed made up. Big conspiracy theory.

Because of that, its got every1 looking with a critical eye at the rest and citing more conspiracy theorys. But i think they're being overly critical. It can be all be explained

except for the pentagon.

where the hell did the wreckage go ?

look at lockerbie disaster for example. Wreckage everywhere

ps love the flash with the "pentalawn" showing the golf hole and flag.

 

[Gman]

The antennas are omindirection. They radiate the RF in a 'donut' shape on the plane of the phone. i.e. they radiate forwards and to the sides for miles, but don't radiate in the vertical direction. This includes the base stations too. So they shouldnt' work 6 miles up.

I think, however, that the reporting of 6 miles is incorrect. That is the altitude planes fly at normally. However, this wasn't a normal plane. It was plane that is attempting to fly into a building. It was more likey flying an awful lot lower than 6 miles, thus phones would work...

already said that the mobile phone calls came from flight 93 which was reported to be flying at above 20,000 feet until it came down, however there are a multitude of eye witnesses who all state different and contradicting stories about the plane being very very low almost building height yet the official record is that it was above 20,000 feet until the passenger revolt which crashed the plane. NOTE: the calls came BEFORE the plane went down so by this it can be concluded that these calls where made at around or above 20,000 feet not just 6 miles.

 

[Al Vallario]

except for the pentagon.

where the hell did the wreckage go ?

look at lockerbie disaster for example. Wreckage everywhere

In the case of the Lockerbie bombing, the plane didn't crash into a heavily reinforced building.

There was a veritable smörgåsbord of wreckage dotted around the area. Obviously a lot of the plane will have disintegrated on impact (the fragile wings and tail section, for example. Hence there is only a circular hole in the wall where the main fuselage penetrated the building), but there was still a lot scattered around. Everything suggested a plane had crashed into that building (ignore the conspiracy theorists who claim the engines weren't recognised by Boeing. Although this may be true, there are a number of different engines which could have been fitted to that plane). The clipped streetlights, the generator shifted across the lawn. A missile could simply not cause that kind of damage. Then there's the bodies pulled from the wreckage, along with personal effects which were returned to relatives of the victims; the intelligence services could not have planted that in the timeframe available.

This thread is becoming extremely tiresome now. Naive people who have watched a few videos ("Loose Change", Alex Jones rubbish etc.) and believe everything they have been told come along, mention well-known conspiracy theories (95% of which have been denounced, debunked), keep visiting conspiracy websites and keep throwing out rubbish. People who know what they are talking about point out the flaws in their conspiracy theories and correct untruths, only for the "unbelievers" to ignore this and keep going. New people come along and continue citing rubbish which has already been covered.

People should stop reading these naff conspiracy theory websites and deal with the fact that the world saw evil that day. There will always be unanswered questions, but the overwhelming majority of claims which fuel these conspiracy theories are utter, utter tripe.

If you want to have a serious debate, do your research. Conspiracy theory websites and videos are B-I-A-S-E-D, and chances are the people contributing to them have an agenda of their own. They rely on quotes taken out of context, half-truths, phony "scientific evidence" and testimonials from people who don't know what they're talking about.

 

[a1ex2001]

Anyone want to tell us the conspiracy story for why they are still in the process of demolishing the Deutsch Bank buliding which was so badly dmaged by the collaps of the WTC that it can not be repaired? this is sited much further away form the WTC and also didn't share the same foundation construction!

 

[Gman]

Then there's the bodies pulled from the wreckage, along with personal effects which were returned to relatives of the victims

So the large portions of the plane was destroyed either from the impact or the intense heat from the burning fuel. Now previous impacts from planes into static objects have resulted in various larger objects still recognisable i.e the engines, which are made from some very hard materials.

So if the gov are saying that these engines which are made out of such materials as titanium etc have been total destroyed through impact and fire to an extent that nothing remains how would a human body even bones remain ?

Theres not even impact ares for the two engines on the building apart from the main fuselage which extends into quite a few of the inner sections of the pentagon.

I've no idea first had as to what a planes made out of but i'd say if I chopped a plane up into just the fuselage on its own then just an engine on its own and launched each seperatley at a reinforced building Id expecting the engine to make the most damage.

 

[Fr0dders]

People should stop reading these naff conspiracy theory websites and deal with the fact that the world saw evil that day. There will always be unanswered questions, but the overwhelming majority of claims which fuel these conspiracy theories are utter, utter tripe.

If you want to have a serious debate, do your research. Conspiracy theory websites and videos are B-I-A-S-E-D, and chances are the people contributing to them have an agenda of their own. They rely on quotes taken out of context, half-truths, phony "scientific evidence" and testimonials from people who don't know what they're talking about.

i dont think its fair to go conspiracy theory bashing

just because they are conspiracy theorists doesnt automatically make them wrong.

im willing to believe both stories.

did some reasearch of my own, and came across this argument FOR the accepted truth that a 757 hit the pentagon

every bit as convincing as the conspiracy theory.

Im not really decided tbh.

 

[Al Vallario]

So the large portions of the plane was destroyed either from the impact or the intense heat from the burning fuel. Now previous impacts from planes into static objects have resulted in various larger objects still recognisable i.e the engines, which are made from some very hard materials.

So if the gov are saying that these engines which are made out of such materials as titanium etc have been total destroyed through impact and fire to an extent that nothing remains how would a human body even bones remain ?

Theres not even impact ares for the two engines on the building apart from the main fuselage which extends into quite a few of the inner sections of the pentagon.

See here: http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html

I've no idea first had as to what a planes made out of but i'd say if I chopped a plane up into just the fuselage on its own then just an engine on its own and launched each seperatley at a reinforced building Id expecting the engine to make the most damage.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on the matter either, but as far as I'm concerned there is nothing vaguely unusual about the resulting damage to the building. Bare in mind the fuselage will have been the first thing to hit the building, therefore by the time the engines made impact (attached to the relatively flimsy wings, bare in mind) the nose will already have taken the brunt of it. It doesn't surprise me at all, but on the other hand the theory that a missile hit the building sends me into hysterics.

 

[Glaucus]

but on the other hand the theory that a missile hit the building sends me into hysterics.

Especially as you have:
1) Eye witnesses it was a plane.
2) Damage on flight path lamp posts and generator, which could not be caused by missile
3) frames from security videos, all though not great show its a plane. It deff way to big for a missile.
4) debris from plane. It is there its just a myth there isn't any.

 

[sidthesexist]

1) Eye witnesses it was a plane.
3) frames from security videos all though not great show its a plane. It deff way to big for a missile.

there are also eye witness's that state it wasn't a jetliner and was much smaller, the frames from the video also do not show it as being big enough to be a pasenger liner, and all the other video's that were seized from surrounding buildings and could show exactly what did hit have never been released, some people say this is due to security but thats a complete load of cobblers due to the fact there are still images available that show most if not all of the buildings security cameras ect

 

[Glaucus]

there are also eye witness's that state it wasn't a jetliner and was much smaller, the frames from the video also do not show it as being big enough to be a pasenger liner

What films have you been watching. You slice in a 757 over the frames and match the size of that plane to surrounding objects it fits perfectly.

As for eye witnesses you have to be careful as there incredibly unreliable. However all 4 points should be more than enough evidence.

 

[MookJong]

So if Flight 77 didn't hit the pentagon where did it go? We know direction and speed it hit the pentagon because it was tracked from takeoff on radar all the way to it's final conclusion....

You can't say it wasn't flight 77 but offer no other explanation because all the evidence apart from you saying it "doesn't look" like flight 77 says it was.

 

[Al Vallario]

there are also eye witness's that state it wasn't a jetliner and was much smaller

Everyone makes mistakes. Especially when you have a jetliner flying towards you at so many hundred miles per hour.

the frames from the video also do not show it as being big enough to be a pasenger liner

You can't make judgments based on such material.

all the other video's that were seized from surrounding buildings and could show exactly what did hit have never been released, some people say this is due to security but thats a complete load of cobblers due to the fact there are still images available that show most if not all of the buildings security cameras ect

"Could show exactly what did hit". "Could" is the crucial word in that sentence. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the confiscated material showed the plane hitting the pentagon. Although conspiracy theorists make it sound as if the intelligence services were covering their tracks, it is common procedure to perform such confiscations; especially after an incident of such a magnitude. The cameras might not have been filming, they might not have caught anything (the plane was going pretty fast). Then there's the fact that there really is no need for the government to release the footage into the public domain - whether it contains images of the plane hitting the building or not - except to disprove conspiracy theorists who will only say the footage is faked, that the jetliner was a copy etc.

Then, obviously, when poking holes in the official story you might want to look at the bigger picture. What are you suggesting with all of this? That the government hijacked the real plane, flew it off to a secret location and have held all the passengers captive, whilst flying a copycat/light airline/missile into the pentagon? Sometimes it's easier to just accept that there will be one or two things which can be interpreted as suspicious, eyewitnesses are not always reliable sources of information and just go along with the official story. That's what the overwhelming majority of evidence points to, and you're not helping anyone by claiming the government is behind it all - other than the terrorists, who are probably sat in their caves laughing at people like you.

 

[sidthesexist]

iirc the flight that hit the pentagon wasn't tracked the whole time there has certainly been claims that it disapeered for some time then reapeared on the scope

 

[Glaucus]

iirc the flight that hit the pentagon wasn't tracked the whole time there has certainly been claims that it disapeered for some time then reapeared on the scope

Claims, claims by who. Only a few radar personel would actually know.

 

[MookJong]

iirc the flight that hit the pentagon wasn't tracked the whole time there has certainly been claims that it disapeered for some time then reapeared on the scope

Yes it was lost for 8 minutes I believe, I guess thats just enough time to replace the plane with a missile or small jet....

 

[sidthesexist]

You can't make judgments based on such material.

the poster who mention the vid did dont see you mention him making judgements?

"Could show exactly what did hit". "Could" is the crucial word in that sentence. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the confiscated material showed the plane hitting the pentagon. Although conspiracy theorists make it sound as if the intelligence services were covering their tracks, it is common procedure to perform such confiscations; especially after an incident of such a magnitude. The cameras might not have been filming, they might not have caught anything (the plane was going pretty fast). Then there's the fact that there really is no need for the government to release the footage into the public domain - whether it contains images of the plane hitting the building or not - except to disprove conspiracy theorists who will only say the footage is faked, that the jetliner was a copy etc.

Then, obviously, when poking holes in the official story you might want to look at the bigger picture. What are you suggesting with all of this? That the government hijacked the real plane, flew it off to a secret location and have held all the passengers captive, whilst flying a copycat/light airline/missile into the pentagon?

and if nothing is shown why is the tape being hidden still? if nothing was shown they could release it and destroy part of the conspiracy stone dead but they dont

 

[sidthesexist]

Yes it was lost for 8 minutes I believe, I guess thats just enough time to replace the plane with a missile or small jet....

the story i saw stated it was a lot longer than 8 mins so thats something else to argue about

 

[MookJong]

So why did the government swap flight 77 for something else again?

 

[Al Vallario]

the poster who mention the vid did dont see you mention him making judgements?

I have no idea what that means, but if it means what I'm interpreting it as meaning, then I would have if I had the chance.

and if nothing is shown why is the tape being hidden still? if nothing was shown they could release it and destroy part of the conspiracy stone dead but they dont

Then there's the fact that there really is no need for the government to release the footage into the public domain - whether it contains images of the plane hitting the building or not - except to disprove conspiracy theorists who will only say the footage is faked, that the jetliner was a copy etc.

Besides, if what I've read around the 'net is true, the FBI have stated that none of the tapes seized captured the impact of Flight 77, just the aftermath. Personally I don't see anything unusual about that; most CCTV cameras only capture images once every second or so at most, and they will have been pointed at areas like car parks, building entrances, fences and checkpoints... not a random section of the wall of the pentagon.

 

[andyp]

Yes it was lost for 8 minutes I believe, I guess thats just enough time to replace the plane with a missile or small jet....

Tell me exactly how that would work?