9/11 Terrorists

[WillyNelson]

Ow don't forget the trade towers collapsed form the bottom.... when the planes crash in the top half.

Whatever merit any of your other posts may or may not have is rendered irrelivant by that statement.

You obviously either haven't actually seen the Twin Towers colapse or you've been completely brainwashed by CT rhetoric without looking to apply the theory to actual events.

 

[Turambar]

All the conspiracy theories are bull...

IT WAS THE SNAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was the cruel wizard Wrath-Amon.

 

[drunkenmaster]

I've listened to a few of the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 and no matter how plausible they might sound I'm always brought back to the same question: why would the US government conspire to kill it's own people?

I've yet to hear a convincing answer.

This is beyond daft, I don't believe ANY of the conspiracy theories but there are loads of reasons a few particularly immoral people would want to kill their own people.

PArtriot act, essentially unprecedented power to search, arrest, hold suspects, as someone else mentioned, as an excuse to go to war with people they had no other reason they could sell to the general public. Theres an almost endless list of things the governement could get out of it.

The thing is, you'd pretty much have to believe the president, or people in a position to do this, were that evil and power hungry, something I'm not sure either way on, there are plenty of power mad immoral people in politics.

The problem is, thats part of terrorists goals, to change our way of life, freedom, equality, ability to mock gods, or have weird sex, doing what they've deemed is bad. Killing people is a by product, terrorists goals is to change our society's and scared governments trying to make stupid people feel safe, do just that, reduce our freedoms in the name of stamping out terrorism, while doing exactly what they wanted the whole time.

Terrorism, time and time again, is proven that you really can't fight against it. SO few people actually killed in the past century from terrorism, yet almost every single UK/US/Afghan/iraqi/etc citizen effected in their lives from it.


Could it be an elaborate plot to grab more power for the government, certain business interests, and help go to wars for more power and money, sure, do I think they did, no. The real problem of it is, a government that planned it and a government that panics and reacts to it, would both do the same thing. Either using it as an excuse to take more power and go to war and it was all planned, or genuinely trying to stop more terrorist attacks by, taking more power and going to wars.

 

[Longbow]

Is this forum going to be closed again on that anniversary?

I hope not. Closing the forum serves no purpose.

 

[Edrof]

Nobody wins in war.

Close this **** and move on.

The arms manufacturers and dealers win big time.

 

[Sankari]

I have read reports which had them cheering and whooping for joy when the police officer sighted them - obviously not on "official" MSM sites.

Contrary to your claim, these reports were also circulated by mainstream media (e.g. the New York Post, ABC News and Haaretz).

On approaching the individuals, they said to him "We are not your problem Police Officer. The Palestinians are".

That quote comes from the ABC News report, though I have never seen it substantiated. The guys in the van were arrested, detained for more than 2 months, and eventually deported to Israel after being cleared by the FBI. We now know that at least a month before the WTC was hit, Israel had warned the US government of a possible al-Qaeda attack. This militates against any suggestion of Israeli involvement with the 9/11 hijackings.

True or not, the thought of it is very unsettling.

What matters is not whether it's unsettling, but whether it's true.

 

[Random Guy]

Israel didn't benefit from the Iraq war, swapping a sunni counterpoint of Iran with an sympathetic shia state is not at all in Israel's long term benefit.

And yet they cheered it along for the entire duration of the build-up to war....

@Evangelion: Thanks for the info.

 

[Metalface Mark]

Security before this event wasn't quite what it is today. You used to be able to go right up to the gate without going through security.

I dont know about English airports, but you couldnt do that at Glasgow or Prestwick, they have tightened up even more since the bombing attempt at Glasgow now and theres barely any of the airport accessible without going through security.

 

[RDM]

I dont know about English airports, but you couldnt do that at Glasgow or Prestwick, they have tightened up even more since the bombing attempt at Glasgow now and theres barely any of the airport accessible without going through security.

Prior to 9/11 US airports for internal flights were akin to bus stations near enough.

 

[stockhausen]

Israel didn't benefit from the Iraq war, swapping a Sunni counterpoint of Iran with an sympathetic Shia state is not at all in Israel's long term benefit.

It is not unreasonable to believe that Israel expected and still expects to benefit greatly from the illegal invasion of Iraq, both financially and militarily.

• As I recall, there were suggestions at the time that Israel hoped to build a pipeline from Iraq, through Israel, to the Mediterranean and to build an oil processing facility in Israel.
• Israel may well have gambled that a new regime in Iraq would be less opposed to its existence that Saddam Hussein claimed to be.
• Nobody knows what sort of a regime will eventually rule Iraq when it has settled down and become a functioning state. However, it is unimaginable that the Americans will allow it to have an anti-USA / anti-Israel agenda.
• I believe that the USA, Israel's staunchest and most unquestioning supporter, now has a massive presence in Iraq which is likely to remain indefinitely.
• It is wholly incredible that Israel didn't know a very great deal about the state of Iraq's imaginary WMD - probably more than Saddam Hussein did.

In summary, your post is complete nonsense.

 

[Sankari]

And yet they cheered it along for the entire duration of the build-up to war....

No they didn't. Israel was strongly opposed to the war on Iraq right from the start. The USA has even admitted this openly:

WASHINGTON – A senior official at the US State Department has said that political, diplomatic and military officials in Israel warned the United States against invading Iraq even before the American forces entered the country, the Inter Press Service news agency reported over the weekend.

According to the official, Israel tried to convince the Bush administration that the main problem in the region was Iran, not Iraq.

The man, Lawrence Wilkerson, was a member of the US State Department's policy planning staff and later chief of staff for Secretary of State Colin Powell.

In an interview with the news agency, he said that "the Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy - Iran is the enemy."

...

Wilkerson noted that the main point of their communications was not that the US should immediately attack Iran, but that "it should not be distracted by Iraq and Saddam Hussein" from a focus on the threat from Iran.

The message was conveyed by a large number of senior Israeli officials to their American counterparts, including political figures and intelligence sources.

...

This is the first confirmation of the issue on the part of such a senior American official, following many hints heard on the Israeli side. The remarks were made in contrast to attempts by Israel's opposers in the US to blame Jerusalem for the American invasion of Iraq.

(Source).

Needless to say, Israel's warnings were reported by mainstream media at the time:

The head of the Israeli army has warned of an "earthquake, which will reshape" the Middle East if America goes to war with Iraq.

Lieutenant-General Moshe Yaalon told an Israeli newspaper that while he expected America to launch a strike, he was more concerned about attacks by Palestinian militants than any danger posed to Israel by Iraq.

(Source).

 

[jas72]

9/11 terrorist are muslim
8/10 cats love wiskers

LOL....

Apparently they were all from Saudi Arabia and this is why we invaded Iraq

 

[RDM]

In summary, your post is complete nonsense.

Bless, and there was me thinking stockhausen was actually attempting a reasoned argument.

It is not unreasonable to believe that Israel expected and still expects to benefit greatly from the illegal invasion of Iraq, both financially and militarily.

It is certainly an assumption I would expect from an anti-se...er anti-zionist such as yourself...

As I recall, there were suggestions at the time that Israel hoped to build a pipeline from Iraq, through Israel, to the Mediterranean and to build an oil processing facility in Israel.

Not had much luck with that have they?

Israel may well have gambled that a new regime in Iraq would be less opposed to its existence that Saddam Hussein claimed to be.

Yes, because the neighbouring shia state is so friendly towards Israel...

Nobody knows what sort of a regime will eventually rule Iraq when it has settled down and become a functioning state. However, it is unimaginable that the Americans will allow it to have an anti-USA / anti-Israel agenda.

Considering how little planning the US put in to building a post war Iraq it seems unlikely they will have much control over the eventual Iraqi state as everything they touch in the country seems to go to bits.

 

[shine]

Prior to 9/11 US airports for internal flights were akin to bus stations near enough.

Having flow out of Boston Logan Airport before 9/11 I can confirm there was very little security. There was no passport control (airlines were expected to make sure that only passengers with tickets etc. would board a plane), just metal detectors and security guards to pat you down. This was an international flight back to Heathrow. Compared to the security we had at UK airports at the time the bus station analogy is apt. 9/11 was a wake up call to the US in terms of security.

 

[Random Guy]

No they didn't. Israel was strongly opposed to the war on Iraq right from the start. The USA has even admitted this openly:



(Source).

Needless to say, Israel's warnings were reported by mainstream media at the time:



(Source).

Can't comment on the retconning of the part that Israeli politicians did play in the Iraq War build-up. Head of army commentary and post-war denials do not absolve the Israeli Administration of their role - it was always Iraq first, and then Iran.

 

[cm1179]

my view on things was that the only reason the passengers on the PA flight rushed the terrorists was because they had heard the other planes had been flown into targets. i would assume that the terrorists on the other flights had told the passengers to remain calm and seated as they were going to return to the airport. most people would (although terrified) be happy to do this. i would do this if ever put in the situation, atleast i would have done pre 9/11.

 

[Al Vallario]

..

 

[Sankari]

It is not unreasonable to believe that Israel expected and still expects to benefit greatly from the illegal invasion of Iraq, both financially and militarily.

How exactly would Israel benefit from a war on Iraq?

As I recall, there were suggestions at the time that Israel hoped to build a pipeline from Iraq, through Israel, to the Mediterranean and to build an oil processing facility in Israel.

No. Israel and Jordan were considering the possibility of re-opening the Haifa-Mosul pipeline, which delivered oil from Iraq to Lebanon and Israel until the Iraqis and Jordanians shut it down in 1948. However, independent analysts noted that the net gain from this proposal would be minimal, and it never eventuated:

JERUSALEM -- With Baghdad effectively in American hands, Israel and Jordan are testing the political waters to see whether the Haifa-Mosul pipeline could once again pump oil from Iraq to Israel's major port city.

According to a well-placed Israeli source close to the Jordanians, the deal, which is partially contingent upon progress on the Palestinian front, could open a new chapter in the cold peace between Israel and Jordan.

...

The British built the pipeline in the 1930s and 1940s, and oil flowed from Iraq to both Tripoli in Lebanon, along the T-line, and to Haifa, along the H-Line. However with the British withdrawal from Palestine on the eve of the 1948 War of Independence, the pipeline shut down, remaining dormant ever since.

...

But energy expert Dr. Amit Mor, president of Eco-Energy, said he believes that the pipeline would not have such a significant effect on the Israeli economy. He calculates that the pipeline would lower fuel prices by only 5 percent, or about $7 per ton of oil.

This would give the Israeli economy about a $70 million boost per year, certainly no reason for undue exuberance, he noted. Israel's GDP is around $100 billion.

(Source).

[*]Israel may well have gambled that a new regime in Iraq would be less opposed to its existence that Saddam Hussein claimed to be.

Quite the reverse, in fact. Israel told the Americans that Iraq was not a significant threat and there was no need for invasion.

[*]Nobody knows what sort of a regime will eventually rule Iraq when it has settled down and become a functioning state. However, it is unimaginable that the Americans will allow it to have an anti-USA / anti-Israel agenda.

Last time I checked, the Iraqi government was determined by the Iraqi people, not the USA. They even had an election.

[*]I believe that the USA, Israel's staunchest and most unquestioning supporter, now has a massive presence in Iraq which is likely to remain indefinitely.

What "massive presence"? The Americans don't even have a combat brigade in Iraq anymore.

[*]It is wholly incredible that Israel didn't know a very great deal about the state of Iraq's imaginary WMD - probably more than Saddam Hussein did.

It is wholly credible that Israel did not possess comprehensive knowledge of Hussein's WMD potential. Israeli intelligence about Iraqi WMD was only partial, and offered within the context of a "worst case" scenario. Some of this was overstated, as various officials later admitted (despite Israel's overall lack of enthusiasm for the war, there were elements within the Israeli government that were keen to see Iraq taking some stick).

In summary, your post is complete nonsense.

On the contrary, RDM's post made a great deal of sense.

 

[Sankari]

Can't comment on the retconning of the part that Israeli politicians did play in the Iraq War build-up. Head of army commentary and post-war denials do not absolve the Israeli Administration of their role - it was always Iraq first, and then Iran.

It's not "ret-conning." The information is confirmed by pre-war records, and as I pointed out, it was already being discussed in public at the time.

Remember this?

The head of the Israeli army has warned of an "earthquake, which will reshape" the Middle East if America goes to war with Iraq.

Lieutenant-General Moshe Yaalon told an Israeli newspaper that while he expected America to launch a strike, he was more concerned about attacks by Palestinian militants than any danger posed to Israel by Iraq.

That's from a BBC article dated Friday, 7 February, 2003. Pre-war.

Just for once, could you please offer some objective proof to substantiate your subjective rhetoric? I haven't seen you post a single shred of evidence for anything you've said. At the moment it looks like you're just making stuff up as you go along.

 

[agnes]

I remember my visit to the pilots cabin when I was a child. Was flying up to Scotland with my mum and I asked to see the cabin. I was in awe as it was a night flight, sun was just setting and it looked amazing!

Shame this is no longer possible as I would love to show the same to my nephew

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