A Closer Look At Mantle and EQAA In Civilization

[ubersonic]

Yet another type of AA O.o

Because MSAA, qMSAA, CMAA, FXAA, SSAA, FSAA, KHAAN, etc weren't enough? lol

The funniest thing is that according to reviews of Apple's 5K screen, you can't even see the pixel grid. So AA is going to be dying out over time anyway.

 

[andybird123]

Anyway, you are right, MS can't do any of this without AMD, its AMD's architecture.

I didnt say that either. Do you seriously think that the xbox one api bears no relation to the xbox 360 api? And who codeveloped that?

At its core, DX11.X, DX12 and mantle all share a common root... Directx, which has always been a collaboration between all three.
Did AMD sit down with a completely blank piece of paper when they started work on Mantle?

Of course they didnt, they borrowed heavily from over a decade of previous work from other people.
Obviously, working on xbox one with GCN hardware made it easier for them to take that work and apply it to other GCN hardware, hence why they were able to rush out mantle while at the same time MS have had to bear in mind compatability, and by the sounds of things add other features for next gen PC hardware.
But no, I'm sure you are right and MS only started work on a much more complex project a long time AFTER Mantle was with developers and still manage to get it in to developers hands around a year later. or in fact within a couple of months to be able to do the forza demo.

Thanks for the laughs.

 

[bru]

I don't buy it, i deal with facts, not a series of increasingly far fetch theories made up to fit an agenda based argument.

I'm very pleased to hear that humbug.

But unfortunately I do have to just mention that even though you deal in facts and most of us do try to do the same, but inevitably stumble from time to time, I do have to wonder how you can make this statement. (and that is without going getting into the whole time frame thing being factual, as there is not enough info to say that either timeline is the correct one.)

So thats how you would explain why a company like AMD with very constrained finances managed to develop a better API than what currently exists, from scratch, in less than halfthe time its apparently taking Microsoft.

'A better API'


Hmm, not too sure about that to be honest, there are some things that Mantle does well, but then there are an awful lot of things that it doesn't do at all. (remember that performance isn't the only metric.)

 

[bru]

According to Microsoft DX12 is not Mantle, they seem to go out of their way to distance themselves of anything to do with Mantle, even teaming up with rivals Nvidia on stage in showing off Forza 5 on a GTX Titan to reinforce Nvidia's stage dance about how Microsoft and Nvidia are the great partners to bring us the great API.
An utter joke as Forza 5 runs, and will only ever run on an AMD APU.

LOL, er if it was shown on the PC with a titan then obviously it will not only ever run on an AMD APU.

It is a shame that there are so many console exclusives, as this is one game that I would love to play. I cannot justify buying a Xbone just for this title, maybe when the new halo stuff emerges my son will pick one up.

 

[humbug]

I'm very pleased to hear that humbug.

But unfortunately I do have to just mention that even though you deal in facts and most of us do try to do the same, but inevitably stumble from time to time, I do have to wonder how you can make this statement. (and that is without going getting into the whole time frame thing being factual, as there is not enough info to say that either timeline is the correct one.)



'A better API'


Hmm, not too sure about that to be honest, there are some things that Mantle does well, but then there are an awful lot of things that it doesn't do at all. (remember that performance isn't the only metric.)

I'm only going from what Developers who use it say about it.

 

[Gregster]

I don't get why the hardcore AMD guys have such a dislike for DX12? Surely they don't want it to fail and would want much better game performance across all newer games and not the odd game here and there?

Sure Mantle is great in BF4 for guys running muck CPUs or 4 cards but the gains are tangible at most for semi decent systems. Then we have games like Plants Vs Zombies LOOOOOOOL. Thief is a god awful game and I can't believe I actually bought it. Sniper Elite V3 is an ok game but too much like SEV2. And finally we have Cilvilization BE and looks like Mantle isn't doing what it says on the tin and getting a proper beating from DX11. Now I have a dislike for Mantle, as it isn't something I can try on my own system, as it is AMD proprietary (fair enough, they want to sell hardware, so no fault there) but DX12 will be for all who have a DX12 capable card, so surely this is good?

 

[tommybhoy]

I don't get why the hardcore AMD guys have such a dislike for DX12?

Where is the 'dislike' for DX12?

All I can see is trepidation on DX 12 delivery and what came first.

Yet again someone who hasn't got hours upon hours of Mantle gaming under their belt informs us that anything Mantle related is gash.

Quality!

Pretty sure I saw a 6 core Intel/Titan setup humbled by Mantle just the other day too.

 

[Gregster]

Where is the 'dislike' for DX12?

All I can see is trepidation on DX 12 delivery and what came first.

Yet again someone who hasn't got hours upon hours of Mantle gaming under their belt informs us that anything Mantle related is

Spoiler

gash.

Quality!

Pretty sure I saw a 6 core Intel/Titan setup humbled by Mantle just the other day too.

I sure hope you mean "a long deep wound". I take it you didn't read half the comments here then? And nope, I don't like Mantle because I can't use it (I guess you missed that).

 

[tommybhoy]

No I meant gash.

http://www.scotranslate.com/translate/scottish/gash/1/1338#.VFzhE_msW7s

Yes I read them, did you?

Again, trepidation on DX 12 delivery and what came first does not equate to disliking DX12.

 

[Gregster]

Yes I read them, did you?

Again, trepidation on DX 12 delivery and what came first does not equate to disliking DX12.

http://www.scotranslate.com/translate/scottish/gash/1/1338#.VFzhE_msW7s

Well if you can't see it, I will leave it there. No point having a discussion with you either, as you just go off on one and get personal.

 

[tommybhoy]

Like I said yesterday, giving out personal then cry wolf when you get a some back, put up the dislike comments or stop talking rubbish.

 

[tommybhoy]

Oh no, MAJOR DEVELOPER signed up with AMD and Nvidia to bring every single PC gaming feature available to their title has reservations to DX 12 delivery.

 

[humbug]

I don't get why the hardcore AMD guys have such a dislike for DX12? Surely they don't want it to fail and would want much better game performance across all newer games and not the odd game here and there?

Sure Mantle is great in BF4 for guys running muck CPUs or 4 cards but the gains are tangible at most for semi decent systems. Then we have games like Plants Vs Zombies LOOOOOOOL. Thief is a god awful game and I can't believe I actually bought it. Sniper Elite V3 is an ok game but too much like SEV2. And finally we have Cilvilization BE and looks like Mantle isn't doing what it says on the tin and getting a proper beating from DX11. Now I have a dislike for Mantle, as it isn't something I can try on my own system, as it is AMD proprietary (fair enough, they want to sell hardware, so no fault there) but DX12 will be for all who have a DX12 capable card, so surely this is good?

If DX12 is anything like Mantle i welcome it, hope it is because only in Mantle do all my 8 cores load up, only in Mantle do i get CPU bound Frame Rates equivalent to your 6 core i7, at least.

What's for me to dislike in that ^^^

 

[Wizzfizz]

I didnt say that either. Do you seriously think that the xbox one api bears no relation to the xbox 360 api? And who codeveloped that?

At its core, DX11.X, DX12 and mantle all share a common root... Directx, which has always been a collaboration between all three.
Did AMD sit down with a completely blank piece of paper when they started work on Mantle?

Of course they didnt, they borrowed heavily from over a decade of previous work from other people.
Obviously, working on xbox one with GCN hardware made it easier for them to take that work and apply it to other GCN hardware, hence why they were able to rush out mantle while at the same time MS have had to bear in mind compatability, and by the sounds of things add other features for next gen PC hardware.
But no, I'm sure you are right and MS only started work on a much more complex project a long time AFTER Mantle was with developers and still manage to get it in to developers hands around a year later. or in fact within a couple of months to be able to do the forza demo.

Thanks for the laughs.

That I agree with.

 

[humbug]

Oh no, MAJOR DEVELOPER signed up with AMD and Nvidia to bring every single PC gaming feature available to their title has reservations to DX 12 delivery.

Love that huge animated nod from the Nvidia guy next to Chris as soon as he voiced his support for Mantle.

Did he forget to read his employers memo?

 

[andybird123]

Erm, nope, he never mentions a concern over dx12 delivery, he says;"So I actually think there are a fair amount of improvements that are now moving in that direction, so I’m pretty happy with that. That’s the reason why I like Mantle and I’m quite happy to see and now finally the DirectX 12 announcement"

He then goes on to say that he's skeptical of their statement of dedication to pc gamers AFTER DX12

 

[Martini1991]

Sometimes I think humbug might just be the most sophisticated troll of all time.

 

[tommybhoy]

Love that huge animated nod from the Nvidia guy next to Chris as soon as he voiced his support for Mantle.

Did he forget to read his employers memo?

Erm, nope, he never mentions a concern over dx12 delivery, he says;"So I actually think there are a fair amount of improvements that are now moving in that direction, so I’m pretty happy with that. That’s the reason why I like Mantle and I’m quite happy to see and now finally the DirectX 12 announcement"

He then goes on to say that he's skeptical of their statement of dedication to pc gamers AFTER DX12

Oh dear, it's clear as day that he's sceptical about Microsoft and it's commitment to gaming/DX12- 'and now(looking upwards and sighs) when he says direct XXXXXX twellllllllve', plain as day mate when the whole room bursts into laughter about MS commitment to gaming.

Disclaimer:

My comment above in no way implies I do not want DX12 to succeed, I'm hoping all future games show improvements via new api's(regardless who brings it to market)=improved gaming experience.

 

[Martini1991]

MS don't know what commitment to PC gaming is.
They make some noise and give us a halo stick shooter.

 

[Gregster]

Pretty sure I saw a 6 core Intel/Titan setup humbled by Mantle just the other day too.

[Sense of humor mode]I just remembered what you was talking about here and if you mean BF4 (which I assume you do), you are quite correct, a Single Titan got beaten by A PAIR of 290s at the exact same settings in BF4, by around 3 fps average. Ohhhh and whilst Mantle did a good job at crossfire, I ran the bench again (this time with SLI) and I did get beaten by 10 fps ish and scratched my head a bit. Checked my run again and realised I was actually running 2560x1440 as opposed to 1080P, so you are quite correct, Mantle did humble my runs [/sense of humor mode]