A JRS project thread - 1968 Citroën ID19
- Thread starter JRS
- Start date
Dug into the wiper wiring tonight. I can power the motor direct from the +ve terminal on the battery so I know a) the motor works and b) the motor is actually earthed. And even without wiring around from the battery I've got 12V at the motor. But I can't make the switch do anything yet. Ran out of useful light tonight so I'll pick back up tomorrow where I left off.
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God I love electrics
I think I have this. Fuse 2 goes to the wiper switch, then the motor. The earth on the motor also earths the screenwash pump. I know that earth is good, and I know that at least one power supply wire to the motor is fine as I have 12V there. So I need a switch (either the one already there or another one wiring in as a temporary measure) connecting the supply wire that I know is good and one of the run terminals on the motor. That at least gets them going until I can figure out exactly which bit of wire is busted.
***edit***
God I love electrics
I think I have this. Fuse 2 goes to the wiper switch, then the motor. The earth on the motor also earths the screenwash pump. I know that earth is good, and I know that at least one power supply wire to the motor is fine as I have 12V there. So I need a switch (either the one already there or another one wiring in as a temporary measure) connecting the supply wire that I know is good and one of the run terminals on the motor. That at least gets them going until I can figure out exactly which bit of wire is busted.
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Caporegime
For those interested, Jay Leno's video on the DS is actually very informative if you excuse the occasional American-ness 
It's murder working on a car in this heat...
Not got the wipers going yet, need to go grab a 30A glass fuse from the store tomorrow. Ask me how I knew, without even checking it, that the fuse was blown. But I did get around to re-tuning the carb for an idle speed that lets the hydraulic pump get to work properly, and the engine is running sweet as owt
Not got the wipers going yet, need to go grab a 30A glass fuse from the store tomorrow. Ask me how I knew, without even checking it, that the fuse was blown. But I did get around to re-tuning the carb for an idle speed that lets the hydraulic pump get to work properly, and the engine is running sweet as owt
Man of Honour
Because it's French?
Close! The brake light switch is on the same fuse.
But curiouser and curiouser. Looking at the wiring diagram, the input power that goes to Fuse 1 is then bridged off to supply Fuse 2 (which is wiper motor switch, brake light switch, wiper motor, screenwash pump and certain accessories like the interior B-pillar lights that come on when the doors are open). So how come, when I tested with a known good fuse in 2 tonight, do we have a nice solid 12V on the output from Fuse 1 and a wobbly sometimes-2V-sometimes-6V output that changes second by second from Fuse 2?
Weather stopped play earlier. But the order of play tomorrow will be to verify voltages in and out of fuses at key to off, accessory power, ignition on, and then with engine running. If Fuse 3, whose output is connected to nothing at all right now, has a solid 12V at all four positions then I'm simply going to use that as my supply voltage for the components currently on 2. And then lay good new wire all the way back to the switch on the steering column if I have to in order to get the wipers working properly. Got to have the dash panel bits off anyway to paint them, so taking them off will be good practice
30A for wipers, brake light switch, screenwash pump, interior light switches, cigarette lighter socket, dash clock. And yeah, it's a bit on the beefy side really. But the handbook reckons each of the four fuses is supposed to be 30A, so that's what it's having.
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The plot sort-of thickens. So the owners' handbook says all 4 fuses are 30A. The diagram for Oct '68 to Jan '69 (which the car could be, I haven't had time to check the VIN yet) makes no comment. The wiring diagram for post Jan '69 says 16A-10A-10A-10A. The car was definitely built before September '69 because the dashboard was a one-year design.
Screw it. My plan still stands - terminal 3 in the fusebox is getting and outputting 12V, so I'll just put an appropriate sized fuse in and work from there. All the way back to the switch if I have to.
***edit***
The plot sort-of thickens. So the owners' handbook says all 4 fuses are 30A. The diagram for Oct '68 to Jan '69 (which the car could be, I haven't had time to check the VIN yet) makes no comment. The wiring diagram for post Jan '69 says 16A-10A-10A-10A. The car was definitely built before September '69 because the dashboard was a one-year design.
Screw it. My plan still stands - terminal 3 in the fusebox is getting and outputting 12V, so I'll just put an appropriate sized fuse in and work from there. All the way back to the switch if I have to.
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Soldato
A colleague of my fathers had an early one as a company car in Ghana in the mid 1960's. As you can imagine the roads were often little more than cart tracks up country but that car was so comfortable and the envy of everyone else who rode in it. We had a standard Ford Cortina Mk1 to compare.
Okay. So if I power Fuse 2 direct from battery with a temporary bodging wire I get wipers, screenwash, brake lights, interior lights
It's supposed to be powered by a line running from the starter relay terminal anyway, so I shall repeat the bodge but better. Just as soon as the weather isn't quite so torrential.
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I would have left the bodge in to be honest - it wasn't necessarily the peak of my hackery* with cars. But it did need weather-and-heat protection, and we were running out of useful time today so I pulled it back out.
* - now this on the other hand...this is the peak of my hackery, from when we were refitting the stock carb back on the Land Rover. It will forever remain something that I am unashamedly proud of
It's supposed to be powered by a line running from the starter relay terminal anyway, so I shall repeat the bodge but better. Just as soon as the weather isn't quite so torrential.
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I would have left the bodge in to be honest - it wasn't necessarily the peak of my hackery* with cars. But it did need weather-and-heat protection, and we were running out of useful time today so I pulled it back out.
* - now this on the other hand...this is the peak of my hackery, from when we were refitting the stock carb back on the Land Rover. It will forever remain something that I am unashamedly proud of
I said:...witness the sheer level of hackery that pa and I descend into when refitting a stock Zenith carburettor and realising that the previous owner removed all of the linkage that goes from the accelerator pedal rods to the carb's throttle arm.
Yes that is indeed a flat piece of steel galv-paint sprayed, with a u-bolt clamping it to the accelerator pedal bulkhead rod at one and and a bolt+balljoint at the other attaching it to the Zenith.
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Right then. One rather better wire is now supplying power to Fuse 2, so we've got brake lights again La voiture is officially drivable once more.
Citroën weirdness, or maybe it's just me - that's an unswitched power supply, i.e. live without needing the key at all. Now yeah, there's stuff on that fuse that I'd expect to be permanently live (interior lights and clock to name two). But the brake light switch? The wipers?
God bless the French
La voiture is officially drivable once more.Citroën weirdness, or maybe it's just me - that's an unswitched power supply, i.e. live without needing the key at all. Now yeah, there's stuff on that fuse that I'd expect to be permanently live (interior lights and clock to name two). But the brake light switch? The wipers?
God bless the French
Caporegime
Doesn't seem *that* weird, brake lights are always live in lots of older cars. Wipers is a bit stranger but IDK, maybe you'd want to see out of the window when parked.
e; I was about the use the 2CV as an example but then realised that it is also an old Citroen... Never mind!
e; I was about the use the 2CV as an example but then realised that it is also an old Citroen... Never mind!
Soldato
..... Wipers is a bit stranger but IDK, maybe you'd want to see out of the window when parked.
....
Oooo you just triggered a memory of a film where someone was sat in one of these watching an apartment in the rain and the wipers were flicking over occasionally. I want to say Pink Panther with Peter Sellars but really can't be sure. That is going to bug me now.
....
God bless the French
I have a feeling you will be saying this a lot. Question is can it be any worse than the Bentley electrics
Subbed !
I have a feeling you will be saying this a lot. Question is can it be any worse than the Bentley electrics
Oh, it's already a thousand times easier to follow than the Bentley was, mainly because this car actually sticks to a sensible colouring scheme for the wiring
The Bentley meanwhile wasn't even consistent side-to-side or front-to-back and had completely unlabelled relays with wires heading off deep into the car. Absolutely no way of telling what on Earth they were powering. You'd pull a relay out and nothing obvious would actually change! I never did find out what the one that was twittering behind the dashboard did. Don't suppose I ever will, which is a shame as boy did I lose some sleep and braincells over it...
Caporegime
Oh, it's already a thousand times easier to follow than the Bentley was, mainly because this car actually sticks to a sensible colouring scheme for the wiring
It was put there to make annoying twittering noises once the car reached a certain age.
Trolls at Bentley back in the day.
Well, my dad has at least driven the car now. Reckons the brakes are an on-off switch (you get used to them, but they're very different) and quickly found out about the lack of synchromesh on 1st - I forgot to warn him about that, but then he daily drove the Landy with no synchro on the first two gears so he ought to cope alright. He hasn't mentioned the steering to me, which suggests that either the extra air I put in the front tyres has lightened the load some...or his shoulders are in good nick at the moment and he didn't find heavy steering an issue!
Caporegime
Theres no brake pedal is there, just a sort of button/dome on the floor. You have to gentle with it, its not like a brake pedal. I imagine it will take some getting used to!
Also... Woo post milestone.
The DSeseseseses got the button. The ID has a regular-style pedal but connected to (a slightly simpler version of) the high-pressure hydraulics. So you rest your foot on it and it's enough to make the car brake. Push slightly harder and you hear the pump getting ready to really slam the anchors on. And 2-3mm after that it's a bit like you ran into a brick wall
The Bentley brake pedal felt kinda similar, just a bit more mushy.
Caporegime
The DSeseseseses got the button. The ID has a regular-style pedal but connected to (a slightly simpler version of) the high-pressure hydraulics. So you rest your foot on it and it's enough to make the car brake. Push slightly harder and you hear the pump getting ready to really slam the anchors on. And 2-3mm after that it's a bit like you ran into a brick wall
The Bentley brake pedal felt kinda similar, just a bit more mushy.
Ah, I've learned something. This whole time I thought that ID19 was just the code for the Citroen DS, I didn't realise that the ID19 was a lower spec model which was released later!
So there is a DS19 and an ID19. Interesting!
So it doesn't have the all-in-one suspension/braking/steering/clutching hydraulic system then?
Does it have the headlights which turn with the steering rack?