Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2010, Yas Island Marina Circuit - Race 19/19

[Lopéz]

Sorry guys, I am still not buying this whole "ridiculous track" "awful circuit" stuff.

Look at the number of circuits where overtaking opportunities are considered extremely slim - it's the majority of them. A lot of these circuits are new - so they have only ever had modern generation F1 cars racing on them. F1 cars that don't seem able to run in each others wheeltracks and use any kind of performance advantage, therefore there are no overtaking moves.

Yet in the support races this does not happen.

This tells me that the problem here is not the tracks, it's the cars.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

All the teams have the same software, although each engine manufacturer will have it tuned slightly differently.

I assume what you mean is running retard to pump exhaust gases through for the blown exhaust - both McLaren and Ferrari have been running this for the latter half of the season. You can hear it in the exhaust note from both cars under braking through slow corners.

I know about the Ferrari/Mclaren/Red Bull blown diffusers, but I could have sworn I read an article on F1Fanatic about the Renault engines having a piece of software that gave them the edge at slower speeds.. And that Whitmarsh appealed it (surprise surprise), probably one in the same now, but I'll see if I can find it

EDIT: http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/red-bull-map-q-the-secret-to-the-teams-q3-pace/

 

[Prophet]

I have to admit that was a pretty dull race and certainly didn't do the billing credit. Unlike many others I don't agree that Vettel deserved the title, I know it is very difficult to overtake in F1 but he never seems to go past anyone (at this point I'm sure I'll be posted a link to a youtube video to prove me wrong).

He just seems like a time trial driver, he puts in a stonking qualifying lap and then uses his cars advantage to rule the race, if he doesn't end up on pole he does nothing. If it was Hamilton in Vettel in the same car I don't think he would have stood a chance.

Flame suit on.

I agree. If he's got clear air he can make progress and set great times however stick him in traffic and he's very average. How many times has he caused or nearly caused an accident?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

They are only nobodies to those that clearly aren't F1 fans. They were both race winners before this and last season. You don't stay in F1 for years and years by being a nobody. You're only 18 boy, you're not an F1 pundit.



Do you have any idea what a moronic comment this is? Pretty much every single WDC title has been won in one of the fastest car on the grid, they wouldn't win otherwise would they!

Well ok then why did vettel win in monza in 2008 with a toro Rosso car when he was 21. button and webber never won a race in their 10 years in f1 until 2009 I think button may have won once in 2006 so Ye they were nobody's. I may be 18 but I'm watching f1 over 10 years since I was a kid so i am an f1 fan and u are only 20 and Ur getting on to me for being 18 lol.

 

[LizardKing]

This tells me that the problem here is not the tracks, it's the cars.

Took the words out of my mouth.
The tracks are big, wide, flat, smooth and with lots of run off. They couldn't try to be any more overtaking friendly!

 

[Alpherah]

Sorry guys, I am still not buying this whole "ridiculous track" "awful circuit" stuff.

Look at the number of circuits where overtaking opportunities are considered extremely slim - it's the majority of them. A lot of these circuits are new - so they have only ever had modern generation F1 cars racing on them. F1 cars that don't seem able to run in each others wheeltracks and use any kind of performance advantage, therefore there are no overtaking moves.

Yet in the support races this does not happen.

This tells me that the problem here is not the tracks, it's the cars.

But there are tracks where modern F1 cars can overtake.
Considering these new tracks were pretty much built with F1 in mind, and not GP2 et al, you would consider it pretty important to ensure F1 cars can actually race on them.

 

[Dutch Guy]

There is more overtaking in GP2 as there are more errors being made by lesser experienced drivers, there is fewer dependance on aero for speed and perhaps worse brakes leading to longer braking zones.

IMO F1 cars should have 1400bhp instead of 750bhp so that the limit becomes the drivers right foot again instead of full throttle in most corners, kinda like the Senna's MP4-4 Lewis drove on Top Gear.

 

[TaKeN]

I know about the Ferrari/Mclaren/Red Bull blown diffusers, but I could have sworn I read an article on F1Fanatic about the Renault engines having a piece of software that gave them the edge at slower speeds.. And that Whitmarsh appealed it (surprise surprise), probably one in the same now, but I'll see if I can find it

EDIT: http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/red-bull-map-q-the-secret-to-the-teams-q3-pace/

Very Interesting

 

[clv101]

We all saw the hype, Vettle must win, Hamilton must win, Alonso must finish in the top four etc... it was meant to be awesome with drivers throwing themselves into 50:50 situations because they had nothing to lose.

Rubbish. This race could have been any race of the year. The fact that it was the final race of the season and would decide the championship had no impact on the track as far as I could see.

It was a bad day for Formula 1 in my opinion. The fact that Alonso couldn't pass Petrov despite being a far better driver in a better car with the championship depending on it was ridiculous. A great driver in a great car should ALWAYS be able to find a way past a mediocre driver in a reasonable car, that he couldn't speaks volumes for the problem this sport faces.

 

[sunama]

We all saw the hype, Vettle must win, Hamilton must win, Alonso must finish in the top four etc... it was meant to be awesome with drivers throwing themselves into 50:50 situations because they had nothing to lose.

To be fair, Alonso was doing this. He was having quite a few excursions off the track, when he was struggling to get past the Renault. He was taking risks.

A great driver in a great car should ALWAYS be able to find a way past a mediocre driver in a reasonable car, that he couldn't speaks volumes for the problem this sport faces.

100% agreed.

The problem is the dependence on aerodynamic downforce, which makes it incredibly difficult for the car behind to overtake. Added to this is the fact that Abu Dhabi is a bad track, means that the race is a procession (I did point this out before the race started).

Alonso's big mistake came when he took the early pit stop. He lost track position on a track where there is little overtaking.

 

[Hodders]

I agree that the race on Sunday was a really boring conclusion to a pretty good season.

What I would add is that if you want to watch overtaking there are loads of other race series that will provide it. F1 is often said to represent the pinnacle of car racing. As a result the cars are so finely tuned in every area allowable.

The result is aero packages that work air so hard that the following car just can't be expected to follow/keep up.

Kers/movable wings/extra power buttons etc are all treating the symptoms not the cause.

What is needed is aero that is less reliant on clean air and *maybe* longer braking distances. Reduce the amount of aero surfaces and allow skirts and possibly limit braking compounds/disk materials.

 

[Pete19s]

Well ok then why did vettel win in monza in 2008 with a toro Rosso car when he was 21. button and webber never won a race in their 10 years in f1 until 2009 I think button may have won once in 2006 so Ye they were nobody's. I may be 18 but I'm watching f1 over 10 years since I was a kid so i am an f1 fan and u are only 20 and Ur getting on to me for being 18 lol.

Vettel won a single GP in the Torro Rosso, what has that got to do with nearly every WDC being won by a driver in the fastest car? He showed that he was very talented, he wasn't dragging the car round to podiums every race. Don't forget that it was also effectively a RedBull with a Ferrari engine so no slouch. Surely Vettel was a nobody until he got a seat in a fast car?

That nobody Button finished 3rd in the drivers standings in 2004 behind only the stupidly dominant Ferrari team. IIRC he also outscored everyone else over the last part of the 2006 season. 2007/8 the car was utterly terrible. Everyone knows the story of 2009. How long did you say you had been watching F1 again?

 

[Baboonanza]

I must admit that while I've had an irrational dislike of Vettel all season I can't really begrudge him the WDC. Nobody deserved it more than he did (I'm not saying others deserved it less, just not more) and at the end of the day I'm a believer in the final score being the final decider. In sport there is no 'deserved more', there is only who won and who didn't.

What I don't understand is all the knob-sucking with Abu Dhabi. Everyone all weekend goes on about how 'it's the best circuit for Formula 1' ' The facilities are amazing' etc, but it's a crap circuit for racing. I don't care how good the bloody toilets are, the drivers can pee in a bucket for all I care. I want racing.

Having Barain and Abu Dhabi, easily the two worst races of the year, as the first and last races is terrible for the sport. If it was up to me they'd be dropped entirely but they could at least be moved to middle of season where they wouldn't be so embarassing.

 

[sunama]

The only driver who I didn't want to see win the title was Webber for reasons I stated previously. Vettel (in a RBR car) definitely deserved the title. Remember, he had many points taken away from his grasp, when he his car broke down while leading the race. Had his car not broken down (on 2 occasions), he would've had an extra 50 points.

Ferrari messed up their strategy on Sunday...plain and simple. With such a shockingly bad decision to pit Alonso, they deserved to finish where they did.

Watching the interview with Webber...I can't help feel that he is "done". He looked completely broken and I think he understood that he blew his one and only chance. I felt sorry for him, especially given that RBR management are biased towards Vettel.

Alonso, on the other hand, was upbeat and understood that this year was finished and that next year he would have another go and probably have a good chance of winning the title.

 

[Glaucus]

Sorry guys, I am still not buying this whole "ridiculous track" "awful circuit" stuff.

I will, but for a different reason. To much tarmac and no barriers off the track. But I agree on over talking which the FIA do not seem interesting in solving the real issue, instead keep trying out new ways to introduce it artificially.

we need mechanical grip, engines powerful enough not break that mechanical grip easily and a massive reduction in aero(but for the love of God, no standardised parts, we already have to much of that)

 

[Duke]

The only driver who I didn't want to see win the title was Webber for reasons I stated previously. Vettel (in a RBR car) definitely deserved the title. Remember, he had many points taken away from his grasp, when he his car broke down while leading the race. Had his car not broken down (on 2 occasions), he would've had an extra 50 points.

However it is fine for him to take out other drivers though? Would he have made it to pole and then on to potentially win if he hadn't pushed the engine and gearbox so much, that it expired?

 

[Glaucus]

Also where's all the news articles about this. Can't believe I haven't seen those two bantering to the media about the bet and what's going to happen. Although i suppose it's small fry compared to the WDC and once that's calmed down.

 

[Duke]

Haha, yeah forgot about that

Well done to Lotus - who most of us predicted would do the best out of the three new teams.

 

[mctiny]

Also where's all the news articles about this. Can't believe I haven't seen those two bantering to the media about the bet and what's going to happen. Although i suppose it's small fry compared to the WDC and once that's calmed down.

Here's link to Lotus' news on the subject

 

[M0T]

Erm, how does that make him undeserving? He beat Webber in equal machinery. Fastest quali lap, check. Storm off into the distance, check. I would agree that Hamilton would do better in the car, but that does not make Vettel any more undeserving. Hell, the top 5 all had some pretty shocking results this season. Plus, Vettel has led many more races, only for his car to give up in some way or other. I really wasn't supporting Vettel, but after a mid season dip, the latter part of the season has been flawless from him. Especially when others around him have seriously let the pressure get to them.

I never said Webber is more deserving of the title. My point was that Vettel is a fantastic driver on a clear track when hitting fastest lap times is the aim, but he doesn't show anything special when he doesn't qualify in 1st.

Drivers like Hamilton, Alonso and even Kobayashi are able to make progress through the pack in a way Vettel doesn't. Personally I think that takes more skill than getting fastest laps when you have the fastest car.

But that is just my opinion.