Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2013, Yas Marina - Race 17/19

Dull race saved by Vettels donuts being a brief moment of excitement.

Not quote sure what the FIA are playing at. Stating they will be harsh on track limits and then doing absolutely nothing about numerous track limit breaches in qualifying and the race. Alonso broke both the gaining an advantage off the track and rejoining unsafely rules, yet nothing.

Its just a complete joke now. If they arent going to apply the rules, don't have them, and certainly don't stand up on friday and tell all the drivers you are going to rule with an iron fist, only to pussy out come Saturday and Sunday.

Meh. Crap track anyway. Such a shame given the facilities they have built. They really need to build those improvements they planned.
 
Vettel raced like a true champion today absolutely dominating the field.

As many have said though, the race boring. I fell asleep briefly.


I really never understand this , guy in fastest car, starting from basically the front, in clear air which is a freaking monumental advantage under current car style/tyres/aero effects, is fastest? What part of clear track, fastest car, no one could come close to him makes it a "raced like a true champion"?

People always say stuff like, the way he controlled the race from the front. No, being in the fastest car and at the front isn't control, it's having the fastest car which no other car can touch.

Being in the slowest car out front and using pure driving skill defensively to keep others behind is real control, having no other car comparable and driving away into the sunset isn't difficult, outside of Webber(clearly) and probably the back 4 guys on the grid I don't think many drivers would have a problem driving that car into the distance, maybe not by as big a margin but still a comfortable margin over the rest.

Honestly, the longer this goes on the worse and worse a driver I think Webber is. For 4 years to be unable to improve his starts is pretty pathetic, to have around 1/3rd of the points when that car is capable of finishing behind Vettel in every single race is pathetic.

I'm NOT saying Vettel is bad, but nothing he did today showed anything but the car was completely unmatched by any other car around him.

We've also got to a point where almost every driver/team has worked out(maybe 6-7 races ago after 3 years, it's embarrassing) that downforce doesn't mean **** unless you're out front in clean air. Everyone (except Merc it seems) has realised higher gear ratio, less downforce and the ability to actually use DRS is the only key thing. You effectively can't overtake in corners, braking zones or anywhere else but DRS without hurting your tyres so everyone is now geared for slow corners and high straight speed(except ******** Merc who are the worst by far under DRS these days).

This is also effectively enlarging the gap to Vettel he's got one of the only cars geared for fastest lap time and not being stuck behind people, everyone else is sacrificing lap times for high straight speed and being able to pass with DRS. It gives Vettel an even bigger advantage.

He's miles, absolutely miles better than Webber, he's done nothing short of embarrassed Webber for the last 2 years and that might be why the team don't give a crap about Webber who frankly should have gotten at least 50% more points in the previous two years and secured Vettel's titles a damn sight earlier in the process.

I'm not sure how good Ricciardo will turn out to be but if he's even half decent he'll do better than Webber and maybe we can get a real clue as to how good Vettel is. Ultimately I want a Kimi/Alonso/Hamilton or even Button/Massa type to be in that second car so we can judge a known quantity vs Vettel. If he's 2 seconds faster a lap in the same car than any of those, it's impressive, Webber is just crap. The frequency he makes contact, his frequent inability to pass, his poor judgement calls on pit stops(when they "pulled" him in with Vettel behind a couple races ago Webber said it was also his choice and he just didnt' realise he wasn't in the window yet.... what other top driver would be unaware and let that happen?), everything about his racing shows he's poor in an excellent car.
 
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Honestly, the longer this goes on the worse and worse a driver I think Webber is. For 4 years to be unable to improve his starts is pretty pathetic, to have around 1/3rd of the points when that car is capable of finishing behind Vettel in every single race is pathetic.
Must admit I laughed when they showed Webber failing to perform a proper doughnut after Vettel had done 3 or 4 one handed whilst on the radio mocking his team :D
 
We've also got to a point where almost every driver/team has worked out(maybe 6-7 races ago after 3 years, it's embarrassing) that downforce doesn't mean **** unless you're out front in clean air. Everyone (except Merc it seems) has realised higher gear ratio, less downforce and the ability to actually use DRS is the only key thing. You effectively can't overtake in corners, braking zones or anywhere else but DRS without hurting your tyres so everyone is now geared for slow corners and high straight speed(except ******** Merc who are the worst by far under DRS these days).

Quoted for truth. Key examples of this are the Maldonado win in Spain last year and (in contrast) Hulk keeping faster cars behind him in India last time out due to making his car as slippery as possible.

The Pirelli tyres, especially since the mid-season change combined with the aero regs make for a pretty poor spectacle. Hell, Hamilton had a bit of a reputation for eating up the Bridgestone tyres in his first couple of seasons so he's go no chance of getting the Pirellis to work to his driving style...
 
Found it boring yet again, yes there was some nice overtakes from time to time i.e Massa on Hamilton but roll on next year when hopefully it isn't just Red bull out in front with a stupid lead and we get some closer racing.
 
Anyone else think Kimis 'accident' looked distinctly deliberate?

Kimis long run of points finishes tells you that he's a guy who is more than capable of getting through the first few corners without having incidents yet today he sticks an optimistic one up the inside of a back marker and then appears to turns into them (He definitely turned right going into a left hander and there was no obvious sign that he was countering any movement from the rear of the car.)

He seems to be doing the bare minimum that he can without the team being able to pull him for breach of contract.
 
He's miles, absolutely miles better than Webber, he's done nothing short of embarrassed Webber for the last 2 years and that might be why the team don't give a crap about Webber who frankly should have gotten at least 50% more points in the previous two years and secured Vettel's titles a damn sight earlier in the process..

I agree but I think there's more to it than that. He did very well against Vettel right up until the point the team backed Vettel and even blamed him for a while when Vettel turned into him to stop webber winning 3 on the trot.

I think the evidence is there for plenty of drivers that when they are expected to play second fiddle that's exactly the performance level you get back. Webber could eaily have won the title in 2010 with the same backing they give vettel.

I think they whole situation broke webber and wore him down. I've never been his greatest fan but I think he just made money for his retirement and happily signed on for more.

Up next, another whipping boy.
 
Anyone else think Kimis 'accident' looked distinctly deliberate?

Kimis long run of points finishes tells you that he's a guy who is more than capable of getting through the first few corners without having incidents yet today he sticks an optimistic one up the inside of a back marker and then appears to turns into them (He definitely turned right going into a left hander and there was no obvious sign that he was countering any movement from the rear of the car.)

He seems to be doing the bare minimum that he can without the team being able to pull him for breach of contract.

I did get vibes of that. Honestly I wouldn't blame him at all.
 
Vettel has been cleared for doing donuts. No fine.

I though all donuts where banned for safety reasons? Was flicking stuff into the crowd mentioned?

Even rbr thought they would get fined.

Did button or Hamilton do it at silverstone one year and get fined?

Happy with the decision. Hopefully more donuts to come :)
 
Anyone else think Kimis 'accident' looked distinctly deliberate?

No driver would lead with their suspension into the side of another car, as if it unexpectedly failed at a later point of the race, perhaps going through a high-speed corner such as turn 2 with little run-off, it could lead to a massive accident. Think Wurz in Monaco after banging wheels with Schumacher.

He didn't look interested though - half-hearted moves like that aren't something Kimi does these days.
 
Vettel has been cleared for doing donuts. No fine.

I though all donuts where banned for safety reasons? Was flicking stuff into the crowd mentioned?

Even rbr thought they would get fined.

Did button or Hamilton do it at silverstone one year and get fined?

Happy with the decision. Hopefully more donuts to come :)

It is against the rules to stop on track on the way back to the pits (Alonso in Valencia), take anything from another person (i.e. a flag, some secret ballast), drop anything off (i.e. some secret parts), do something dangerous (Alonso and Webber in Singapore) or fail to return to the pits when you could (Vettel in India).

As Vettel's donuts didn't break any of those rules (he didn't stop, leave anything, take anything, and was off the track) there's little the FIA could do.

Celebrating wins should be encouraged. Its pathetic that the FIA punish it, and even more pathetic that people (mainly the TV pundits) seem to jump all over it expecting a punishment that will rob him of the win. The fans love it, and its not like the FIA are giving the fans much to love about F1 at the moment :rolleyes:

Now his engines and gearboxes don't matter I hope he does donuts at Texas and Brazil too. In fact I hope half the grid goes bonkers in Brazil and they all do it :p
 
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Dull race saved by Vettels donuts being a brief moment of excitement.

Not quote sure what the FIA are playing at. Stating they will be harsh on track limits and then doing absolutely nothing about numerous track limit breaches in qualifying and the race. Alonso broke both the gaining an advantage off the track and rejoining unsafely rules, yet nothing.

Its just a complete joke now. If they arent going to apply the rules, don't have them, and certainly don't stand up on friday and tell all the drivers you are going to rule with an iron fist, only to pussy out come Saturday and Sunday.

Meh. Crap track anyway. Such a shame given the facilities they have built. They really need to build those improvements they planned.

Agree with all that
It's actually really annoyed me. Especially as it's so easy to police. It's not like racing incident vs deliberate. It's quite apparent if you go outside the white line
 
White line thing is a joke anyway, stick kerbs in, stick astroturf in, or change the race track. Just get rid of the white line, other than pit entrance/exit etc.

White line is hard to regulate anyway. Do you punish every time, even if its a mistake. How many mistakes before its deliberate?
 
Its there for safety, so you can go off the track and not lose control. All they need to do is say if you go off track 5 times you have a drive through. Simples.
 
Its there for safety, so you can go off the track and not lose control. All they need to do is say if you go off track 5 times you have a drive through. Simples.

Its not there for safety at all, thats run offs, barriers etc. Its there to clarify the edge of the track, which should be obvious and you shouldn't get a bonus by going outside the track, but because they've got rid of gravel, sand and grass you do.
 
That's the thing for me. If there was a wall etc there they wouldn't do it. It's there to allow mistakes to not result in a dnf or worse imo
Using it deliberately should incur a penalty after 3 occurrences imo. Doing the same in Monaco you get a hefty penalty.. Funny how it doesn't really happen there!
 
White line is hard to regulate anyway. Do you punish every time, even if its a mistake. How many mistakes before its deliberate?

The rule isn't about going off the track, its about going off the track and gaining an advantage.

The FIA have full access to telemetry data. They can tell if a car went off track by loosing control and lifted off while regaining control but strayed outside the lines (which was most of the turn 1 incidents). They can likewise tell if a driver is just foot to the floor gaining an advantage by extending the corner.

Its so easy to police. BTCC, GP2, GP3 and many other series all do it with nowhere near the technology of F1.

What bugs me more is that the FIA said they would be coming down hard on it. Its utterly pathetic. That and the whole "wait 20 minutes with their thumbs up their bums before deciding to investigate after the race" crap they keep doing grind my gears.
 
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No driver would lead with their suspension into the side of another car, as if it unexpectedly failed at a later point of the race, perhaps going through a high-speed corner such as turn 2 with little run-off, it could lead to a massive accident.

Yes, but there wasn't going to be a later point in the race if Kimi intended to bang into someone and pull straight off the track. Which is exactly what he did.

Re: Webber's starts not improving - that's almost purely a function of age. He's 37, your reflexes start to slow down. It was time for him to retire anyway, Vettel just forced the issue.
 
The rule isn't about going off the track, its about going off the track and gaining an advantage.

c.

Well no, with many tracks you can go off the track understeer etc and still gain time, even though it was deliberate.
It is policed horriably at the moment though. But its not so simple.

Sutil for example, went off it wasn't deliberate, gained huge amount of time and wasn't punished.
 
Well no, with many tracks you can go off the track understeer etc and still gain time, even though it was deliberate.
It is policed horriably at the moment though. But its not so simple.

Sutil for example, went off it wasn't deliberate, gained huge amount of time and wasn't punished.

Well, yes.

Why is it not so simple? Did they gain an advantage by going off the track? Yes - Penalty, No - No penalty.

Simple? It doesn't matter if you wen't off track deliberately or not, its about gaining an advantage. Making a mistake and missing your braking point ans straight lining a chicane isn't deliberate, but its certainly going to get you an advantage.
 
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