Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2013, Yas Marina - Race 17/19

The last year Webber was even remotely competitive to Vettel was 2010 when the cars were still using Bridgestones.

It's more the exhausts than the tyres. He's never got on top of the blown diffuser. When Red Bull changed their exhaust design prior to the 2012 season, he was competitive early on, but after they changed back to the 2011-style coanda, Vettel moved forwards, while Webber went backwards.
 
Sparky, are you looking forward to Ricciardo giving Vettel a run for his money? and does he have that big smile on his face in person? :p

He is a very likeable lad , always has time for a chat and a coffee. Will he be a bigger challenge to Seb than Mark was? Only time will tell.
 
I can't help but feel that Ricciardo is going to get smashed, and he's going to cost RBR the WCC unless they build a car as dominant as this year's, which is a distinct possibility unfortunately. To me he's maybe the 3rd or 4th most impressive of the guys who have joined in the last 2-3 years. This is surely going to be like the Hamilton-Kovalainen pairing that McLaren had.

edit: He does seem like a super nice guy though
 
Webber is at least as good as the likes of Button, Massa et al. I can't see Ricciardo doing any better.

What do you base that on, he has had the second fastest car this year, fails to qualify well compared to Vettel, can't get the car off the grid with 4 years of practice. Though in fairness Vettel has also had issues off the grid but I think he has improved over time. Though Hamilton has quite clearly out started the Red Bulls in terms off getting away, but being behind the Red Bulls the two red bulls have done very well to squish Hamilton into oblivion for three races :p


But I basically see no reason the second fastest car on the grid shouldn't be comfortably in second place in the title race. Okay, he certainly has had bad luck, but Vettel has also had failures, Vettel has also had Kers failures and most importantly RBR without Kers is still way faster than every other car so that isn't much of an excuse.

Even in a perfect race he's in dirtier air than Vettel(assuming he's following Vettel) which does make the car less good. But the amount of times he makes contacts, generally can't get the same speed out of the car in the same conditions. Some of the point loss is down to failures, some luck, much of the disparity is due to him being a worse driver.

I do think to some degree drivers who become no.2 drivers tend to take on a "can't be arsed" style of driving. Where Massa driving for a contract has been significantly more impressive than Webber. But personally I find drivers who try less hard because they are no.2 drivers are, *****.

Would anyone here turn their nose up if given the no.2 driver role at Red Bull, or Marussia for that matter, would you try less hard or race less hard if the team focused on the better driver, I wouldn't. I understand some drivers give up, but for me that is part of what makes a driver less good, not an excuse for being less good if you see what I mean.

Will be interesting to see what Ricciardo can do, I would expect him to take time to get to grips with how the team works, their methods, his engineers, setup, even the steering wheel(unless being a feeder team they make a huge effort to keep some of those things as similar as possible?).
 
The only differences between Ricciardo this year and Ricciardo next year will be that he'll qualify 4 places further up the grid and he won't have to pretend he's racing against Vettel any more.

Seriously, Toro Rosso need to be kicked out of the sport unless Red Bull are forced to sell the team. Without them Vettel would only be a two-time WDC, and it also gives RBR an unfair advantage in letting their reserve drivers train in F1.
 
Seriously, Toro Rosso need to be kicked out of the sport unless Red Bull are forced to sell the team. Without them Vettel would only be a two-time WDC, and it also gives RBR an unfair advantage in letting their reserve drivers train in F1.

:rolleyes:

I love how people are so oblivious to whats going on with everyone else on the grid when it comes to digging up any excuse they possibly can to slate RBR.

Actually, I say 'everyone', but its generally the same few strolling around beating the same worthless worn out old drum.
 
:rolleyes:

I love how people are so oblivious to whats going on with everyone else on the grid when it comes to digging up any excuse they possibly can to slate RBR.

Actually, I say 'everyone', but its generally the same few strolling around beating the same worthless worn out old drum.

Four car (or even five car) teams are not unusual in the US. Although they don't have a "WCC" structure like F1 does, owner points for each car are used instead.
 
:rolleyes:

I love how people are so oblivious to whats going on with everyone else on the grid when it comes to digging up any excuse they possibly can to slate RBR.

Actually, I say 'everyone', but its generally the same few strolling around beating the same worthless worn out old drum.

Comical!
 
Four car (or even five car) teams are not unusual in the US. Although they don't have a "WCC" structure like F1 does, owner points for each car are used instead.

Allegances between teams and placing development or reserve drivers in other cars is common place in F1, always has been. Ferrari used to use Sauber as their private driver pre school for years, as recently as Perez. They are also funding Bianchi's spot in Marussia. I imagine hes under orders to jump out of the way of any scarlet car that arrives in his mirrors.
Mercedes have ties to their customers that gets their drivers seats. McLaren have technical partnerships with teams. And any team with a big enough cheque book and a driver they want from their Development Program on the grid will get it.

And this is just my experience of recent decades of F1. I imagine it was even worse back in the day when customer chassis were about, with 2nd tier teams getting top teams hand me down. There are allegiance all across the grid. Even some drivers simply being mates.

But that all seems to be forgotten the moment the "RBR are cheating by owning 2 teams" bandwagon rolls into town.

Given the choice I would much rather a team filled spots on the grid with their Development Drivers in a second team they own. Its a dam site better than all the pay drivers filling all the independant teams to poor to field people on talent alone.

In fact I expect F1 would benefit if Ferrari and McLaren and Mercedes all formed ties that generated 'junior' teams they filled with their rising stars. even applying a bit of the ruthless 'perform or your out' attitude Helmut Marko dishes out. After all its not like being part of Ferrari or McLarens junior program offers much in the way of F1 oportunities any more.

But no, what am I saying, I can't possibly defend RBR. They are the evil beast doing something nobody else is and nobody else can, and are breaking imaginary rules and should be banned for cheating. :rolleyes:


I try. I do love how common sense seems to exit stage left as son as a whiff of RBR conspiracy enters the thread.
 
Back
Top Bottom