Sparky! Long time no see.
Quite right about Seb.
Are we going to see a more competitive package from you guys next season?
Hey mate.
Yes hopefully so. Big rule change is usually good for the sport and good for the fans.
Poll: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2016, Yas Marina - Race 21/21
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Hey mate.
Yes hopefully so. Big rule change is usually good for the sport and good for the fans.
Soldato
It's OK, Ferrari are ******* themselves over at the moment, so a bit more infighting isn't going to change much.
I would have hated to have had Vettel as a teammate when he was at the top of his game, but since he's become a father and the dawn of the V6 era he's not had any period of being exceptional.
If there's any time to take on Vettel in a head-to-head this is it.
He was ruthless as heck with his overtakes yesterday though. Great to see him fighting hard again. Those were some Verstappen-like uncompromising moves at the end.
Caporegime
Media rubbish, Hamilton is a driver and a racer, he wanted the world title and he was leading and controlling the race, his team can expect nor ask for anything more from him than that.
Mercedes were effectively trying team orders on him, he rightly looked at his situation and thought .i.. to them!
Soldato
No one will match Schumi's 7 WDC titles.
Interesting fact... if a driver won 5 races a season (which is a lot when one team isn't dominating), it would still take 18 seasons for them to get to 90 wins.
Ham and Vet are closest to the magic 7 as they each have 3 WDCs. Lewis is second on the all time wins list, so assuming they race for another 9 seasons I can't see either racking up 4 titles in 9 years which is what it would take to also beat the race wins record ^
That level of domination is gone. Hope he recovers
I actually think it could be possible. Verstappen is (on raw talent) probably the most talented driver I've seen for a long time. In Schumi's era there were 16-17 races per season, now we have 21. Max started in F1 at 17, Schumacher was 22 I think. He's already won 1 in a decent car, if RB get their act together with the new rules he's best positioned to do it.
Max is second favourite for the title next year, don't let us down
Soldato
RB pushed for more aero for 2017, so it's going get worse. F1 need to ditch at least 35% of aero down force.
Tough call for Mercedes bosses.
Hamilton did what anyone in his situation would have done. He could have won that race by 45 seconds if he wanted but his only chance at winning the titles was to do what he did.
However orders from your team/management can't and shouldn't be ignored. If orders from your boss are giving and you choose to ignore them, you can't expect not to be punished in someway.
Ignoring orders creates anarchy in a company structure and this is unacceptable in the eyes of the bosses at Mercedes.
I think due to the fact they still got the 1-2 finish, he will get off lightly with a slap on the wrist but had roseberg ended up 3rd I think Hamilton would have got a much more severe penalty all round.
Hamilton did what anyone in his situation would have done. He could have won that race by 45 seconds if he wanted but his only chance at winning the titles was to do what he did.
However orders from your team/management can't and shouldn't be ignored. If orders from your boss are giving and you choose to ignore them, you can't expect not to be punished in someway.
Ignoring orders creates anarchy in a company structure and this is unacceptable in the eyes of the bosses at Mercedes.
I think due to the fact they still got the 1-2 finish, he will get off lightly with a slap on the wrist but had roseberg ended up 3rd I think Hamilton would have got a much more severe penalty all round.
Soldato
Do you think Ham cares? No
I completely agree, I think they would be beyond stupid to punish him. At the end of the day they are racers and he was doing what he could (and was entitled to do) to win the WDC. Even Rosberg after the race said he expected it and didn't have an issue with it.
If they do decide to do anything about it, it should be a couple of words and nothing more.
Fingers crossed.
I understand why it's difficult for you to post here 'in-season' but we certainly miss your insight.
Soldato
Indeed. Not so much Rosberg finishing 3rd, but if he'd lost out on the title as a result of Hamilton's games then there would have been fireworks. I still don't think that he'd have been fired or suspended, but any repeat of those games in 2017 and he would have been out of the door. I'm pretty sure one of them will be leaving anyway, with either Wehrlein or Ocon getting a seat (the fact that they've placed Ocon in the Force India looks good for him).
It's fine to race each other, and I'm sure Bernie was happy with those sparks, but the team want 1-2 finishes and have said so throughout this period whenever anything has happened to either of them. He is an employee of that team and has to answer directly to his employers. It's a sport but equally it's a business and in any other sport or business you'd be shown the door if you publicly go against your bosses wishes.
Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with Mercedes stance on the matter - they'd won the constructors and were going to get a 1-2 the WDC too - but they've made it clear that was their stance, have done since the V6 era started and it was even similar with the Silver Arrows in the 50s.
I know Hamilton felt aggrieved at his relatively poor reliability (remember he only failed to finish 1 race as a result of unreliability though, and only 1 finish off the podium!), but Mercedes did their best for both drivers and they've built him a car that has taken him to 2 drivers championships and a close runner up. He's not entitled to feel even remotely aggrieved in my opinion - he should be grateful he's been given such an utterly dominant car for at least the past 3 seasons.
I think people also need to remember back to Monaco, when Rosberg moved aside to let Hamilton go as he couldn't get his tyres up to temperature in clear air. I'm not saying Hamilton should have done the same yesterday, but a little more respect would have gone a long way.
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Don't agree with this at all. He had every right to try and win the championship. If Rosberg is such a worthy champion he should have been able to pass him.
The cars keep to certain delta/lap times in every race for some reason or another. This was no different.
Soldato
I don't think there were many who managed to pass anyone else without a significant tyre advantage or being baulked (Gutierrez on Grosjean) after the first few laps.
But it's never the driver who sets that delta.
As I said earlier, I think I'd have done the same thing, but I'm not employed by Mercedes.
Soldato
I have no problems with what Hamilton did from a sporting side, but from a team/personal side it shouldn't go unpunished. Both the team and driver before the race said they wouldn't do it, then the driver started doing it as soon as it was out of the team's hands, then disobeyed team orders to stop doing it. If you want #1 status in a team you don't get it by issuing a two finger salute to management. This is supposedly why Pascal was overlooked for the FI drive and Ocon was chosen, his outburst when stuck in the gravel apparently a common thing when things don't go his way.
If the driver isn't willing to follow the team then give preferential treatment to the driver that does. Regardless of track position give Rosberg strategy advantage at the start of next season (unless there is an obvious window that Hamilton needs).
If the driver isn't willing to follow the team then give preferential treatment to the driver that does. Regardless of track position give Rosberg strategy advantage at the start of next season (unless there is an obvious window that Hamilton needs).
Management may complain, but in the end Hamilton will point at all his failed engines and say the team put him in that position, and lost him the world championship. In the end, Mercedes got what they wanted, and no harm was done. I doubt there will be any significant sanctions against the guy that won them two WDCs and three WCCs, and raises their profile massively with the younger target demographic they are after.
The team shouldn't have interfered, they had the championship in the bag either way so just leave the drivers alone.
Team orders are important when you have strong competition, otherwise it doesn't really serve a purpose unless one of them has technical issues.
Team orders are important when you have strong competition, otherwise it doesn't really serve a purpose unless one of them has technical issues.
Soldato
Formula 1 teams don't see it like that though, they knew either one of their drivers would win the WDC so they're only priority was ensuring the race was won, as is their only priority every other race weekend of the season.
With how quickly Vettel was carving his way from 6th place they had every right to tell Hamilton to speed up, they could see by their calculations, and tbh my Cat could see it too, that Vettel was going to catch Hamilton and pass for the win.
Ferrari winning the last race of the season just because your driver ignores your orders? I can totally understand the Merc management.
Soldato
I don't disagree that Mercedes haven't provided Hamilton with the same consistency as they have Rosberg. But it hasn't been intentional, and they've been very open about their disappointing performance with his car.
The point I was making is that the ideal reaction from the driver is not to threaten to quit and then to provoke further ire by disobeying team orders designed not to stop Hamilton winning the race but to prevent a Vettel from stealing the win from Mercedes.
Successful racing drivers are normally highly driven, focussed and inherently selfish individuals. Hamilton's no different, but the great ones can energise a team and take them with him. Hamilton risks causing rifts at his.
Anyway, I can't wait for next year. I'm not convinced the rules will deliver better racing, but at least they'll shake things up. Got my tickets booked for the first two days of testing in Barcelona - should be fun seeing the new cars for the first time!
Soldato
But that never happened as Hamilton was always in control
Rosberg being very sensible and honest about it which is good to see -
Rosberg said the race was "not enjoyable" but refused to criticise Hamilton, saying: "That's a pretty simple discussion. You can understand the team's perspective and you can understand Lewis' perspective. That's it."
It is what it is. Lewis was in the lead and could control the race pace how he saw fit. He didn't cheat, break any rules or deploy unsporting behaviour - he tried to control the pace to his advantage which is what they do every race. The fact he didn't do what his bosses told him is neither here nor there, and that is up to him and Mercedes to sought out.
He isn't the first person to not listen to or do what their boss/manager at work tells them to do is he!
Rosberg said the race was "not enjoyable" but refused to criticise Hamilton, saying: "That's a pretty simple discussion. You can understand the team's perspective and you can understand Lewis' perspective. That's it."
It is what it is. Lewis was in the lead and could control the race pace how he saw fit. He didn't cheat, break any rules or deploy unsporting behaviour - he tried to control the pace to his advantage which is what they do every race. The fact he didn't do what his bosses told him is neither here nor there, and that is up to him and Mercedes to sought out.
He isn't the first person to not listen to or do what their boss/manager at work tells them to do is he!
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