Poll: Abu Dhabi Prix 2018, Yas Marina - Race 21/21

[Goksly]

I'm concerned about Hulkenberg's crash. Was he really unable to get himself out of the car? If so, why? Had the car been on fire, he could have died.

But what if the Halo wasn't there and he hit is head on the barriers?!!?!?! As someone above said, the last fire related incident was ages ago, where as every race or so that is contact which with a bit more bad luck could have been extremely nasty. I'm not a fan of Halo, but until something a bit easier on the eye comes along it definitely improves safety. If it decreases the odds of fatality of a high chance incident, but increases the odds of fatality of a low chance incident - it's still progress.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

But what if the Halo wasn't there and he hit is head on the barriers?!!?!?!

There is a roll bar for a reason.

My issue wasn't the halo, it was the marshals running about in complete confusion. Some old school comedy music would have been quite fitting.

 

[mmj_uk]

The quote I've seen of Hulkenberg over the radio at the time was "Get me out. There is fire. There is fire." so despite the FIA scrambling to defend the halo it sounds to me like he definitely needed external help to get out. It's alright talking about car fires being rare but it's rare situations that brought about the halo in the first place, it's not like drivers are being decapitated by flying cars every season. Apart from Bianchi F1's recent safety record is excellent and the blame for that incident was something being on the track that shouldn't have been without a safety car situation.

edit: I meant Jules Bianchi.

 

[kindai]

Hulk wasn't far away from being trapped in a fireball..

I recall somewhere that the "bag" the fuel is held in is so strong that any impact capable to tearing/ripping it would be so great the driver would have died from the impact already.

 

[Junglist]

I voted a 9. It wasn't the most exciting race but seeing Hamilton and Vettel give Alonso a guard of honour on the cool down lap was something special.

Speaking of, does anyone have a link to the entire cool down lap?

 

[CaptainRAVE]

The quote I've seen of Hulkenberg over the radio at the time was "Get me out. There is fire. There is fire." so despite the FIA scrambling to defend the halo it sounds to me like he definitely needed external help to get out.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/halo-did-not-delay-hulkenberg-extraction/

Whiting says no.

I voted a 9. It wasn't the most exciting race but seeing Hamilton and Vettel give Alonso a guard of honour on the cool down lap was something special.

Speaking of, does anyone have a link to the entire cool down lap?

It was a wonderful thing to watch and those donuts!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/hamilton-vettel-swap-helmets-as-sign-of-respect/

Things like this I really like.

 

[mmj_uk]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/halo-did-not-delay-hulkenberg-extraction/

Whiting says no.

Yeah but that's afterwards when the FIA's halo defence force kicked in, unless the quote I posted from an article is wrong it sounds a lot more like he was panicking to get out due to fire but made no effort himself, why? would you wait for someone to get you out of a burning car if you could just do it yourself?

Also another point, the safer they strive to make F1 the more stupid and wreckless the drivers become, in recent years drivers use their cars as weapons all the time (in fact Hulkenberg's incident was because of him not giving another car room) so there is a balance needs to be made between driver safety and keeping the drivers on their toes so they don't do stupid (dangerous) things. You can make F1 99% safe but if the drivers aren't scared of collisions then that 1% is eventually going to result in a freak accident killing someone.

If the FIA really want to make F1 safer then unless they can teach current drivers about respect for other drivers then maybe bring in some kind of punishment for being in an avoidable collision, deduct Championship points or something or perhaps give drivers bonus points for a clean race.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I didnt watch the race, first one this year but it doesn't look like I missed much.

I saw the replays of the Hulk incident, it didn't look that bad and was pretty low energy as crashes go. It was clearly his own fault, that much was obvious. Given the position of the car he could have easily gotten out if he needed to, the halo didn't play a factor at all in both preventing injury and exit.

The fire was pretty overblown they only spritzed it and it was out, I don't get the criticism for the marshals either, there is a huge piece of catch fencing in the way, they are not allowed onto the track until it is completely clear and yet they were on the scene and put the (small) fire out in under 35 seconds.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

I thought the same. They all seemed utterly confused.

They were hopeless, seen better marshalling at a banger race meeting.

 

[this_is_gav]

I don't get the criticism for the marshals either, there is a huge piece of catch fencing in the way, they are not allowed onto the track until it is completely clear and yet they were on the scene and put the (small) fire out in under 35 seconds.

They were running backwards and forwards, then most of them just stayed behind the catch-fencing watching! This was long after the rest of the field had gone through. And don't get me started on them when they were trying to turn the car over.

They were just generally clueless this year for some reason. They couldn't get Kimi's car in the pitlane, they couldn't move Ocon's car, they couldn't move Gasly's car or even understand the driver shouting at them to look for a fire. Terrible marshalling all race.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Most people panic in an emergency situation. Very few people (unless drilled) are capable to think in the moment and make rational decisions without someone issuing clear directions.

It’s very easy to criticise from an armchair but when you’re running toward a toppled that catches fire, I imagine all manner of thoughts run through your head before you begin to form a cohesive plan.

Let’s not forget that drivers can’t even reach forward to remove the steering wheel without disengaging the seatbelts. Not saying this happened here but they’re strapped in so tights it’s no wonder he hung there like “a cow”.

 

[deuse]

1 But what if the Halo wasn't there and he hit is head on the barriers?!!?!?! As someone above said, the last fire related incident was ages ago, where as every race or so that is contact which with a bit more bad luck could have been extremely nasty. I'm not a fan of Halo, but until something a bit easier on the eye comes along it definitely improves safety. 2 If it decreases the odds of fatality of a high chance incident, but increases the odds of fatality of a low chance incident - it's still progress.

1 the roll hoop you could crawl out between the gap and the cockpit sides where there was enough room. But not any more.
2 It has increased the chance of a driver getting hurt\killed.

 

[The_Abyss]

I'm no fan of the halo at all, but that's purely from an aesthetic point of view. It is just a bolt on as there was clearly no consideration to wider regulations and restrictions to allow a safety device to be better incorporated into car design. However, improving safety is important, more important than aesthetics and that's why I've grudgingly accepted it this season. Stating that I hate how it looks doesn't mean I don't value the contribution it makes from a safety perspective, and I think there have probably been at least two really good examples this year where it made an important contribution to driver safety.

However, that doesn't mean that it is perfect, and this last race delivered a good example of a fairly fundamental flaw. I was thinking how this situation would have ended if it had been in a gravel trap instead, with the halo and the drivers head possibly effectively dug in and buried in the kitty litter.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I'm no fan of the halo at all, but that's purely from an aesthetic point of view. It is just a bolt on as there was clearly no consideration to wider regulations and restrictions to allow a safety device to be better incorporated into car design. However, improving safety is important, more important than aesthetics and that's why I've grudgingly accepted it this season. Stating that I hate how it looks doesn't mean I don't value the contribution it makes from a safety perspective, and I think there have probably been at least two really good examples this year where it made an important contribution to driver safety.

However, that doesn't mean that it is perfect, and this last race delivered a good example of a fairly fundamental flaw. I was thinking how this situation would have ended if it had been in a gravel trap instead, with the halo and the drivers head possibly effectively dug in and buried in the kitty litter.

I don't buy that argument. If the halo was dug in and buried to that extent, you wouldn't get out of a car without it.

Did they give it a full and thorough evaluation for all possible scenarios? Impossible to say, but I'll grant you that it felt a bit rushed. In my professional opinion they didn't need to adopt it at all but then when has F1 ever done anything with any rationale?

 

[jonneymendoza]

For clarity, I wasn't have a go at you at all. The 'content' is just utterly cringeworthy. I agree completely about the different engagement between Moto GP riders and F1 drivers - pretty much only Ricciardo engages with the camera. But that stuff with Will Smith is just awful on any level.

haha get a grip!

It was brilliant! loved it

 

[Goksly]

There is a roll bar for a reason.

But what if it hit at an angle that wasn't covered by the roll bar, which is mainly designed for it rolling rather than it coming in contact with something protruding from the floor (i.e. a barrier). You can "what if" any number of scenarios, but the halo has improved safety.

2 It has increased the chance of a driver getting hurt\killed.

No it hasn't. The only scenario that had made it more dangerous is fire. In the last 15 years put all of the close calls / deaths for fire against all the close calls / deaths for collisions. It's made it safer simple as.

 

[deuse]

But what if it hit at an angle that wasn't covered by the roll bar, which is mainly designed for it rolling rather than it coming in contact with something protruding from the floor (i.e. a barrier). You can "what if" any number of scenarios, but the halo has improved safety.

I'm going on facts that with have seen in the last race. You don't play the "what if" card with someone's life.
Many, many drivers have escaped from the car under the roll bar.

No it hasn't. The only scenario that had made it more dangerous is fire. In the last 15 years put all of the close calls / deaths for fire against all the close calls / deaths for collisions. It's made it safer simple as.

As proven on Sunday when the hulk could not get out of the car.

"In the last 15 years" tell me when was the last time a tire\rim hurt a F1 driver?

 

[this_is_gav]

As proven on Sunday when the hulk could not get out of the car.

"In the last 15 years" tell me when was the last time a tire\rim hurt a F1 driver?

You're using F1 again as if it's the only category that matters. While it hasn't filtered down to all junior categories yet (it will), there have been deaths and injuries in single-seaters from exactly those situations (wheels and large debris hitting a driver) in that time frame.

This year alone in F1 and F2 we've seen two accidents which might have caused serious injuries had the halo not been in place. While "might" obviously doesn't automatically mean "would", I'm sure the drivers involved were thankful it was there at the time.

 

[deuse]

You're using F1 again as if it's the only category that matters. While it hasn't filtered down to all junior categories yet (it will), there have been deaths and injuries in single-seaters from exactly those situations (wheels and large debris hitting a driver) in that time frame.

This year alone in F1 and F2 we've seen two accidents which might have caused serious injuries had the halo not been in place. While "might" obviously doesn't automatically mean "would", I'm sure the drivers involved were thankful it was there at the time.

Because this is a F1 thread.
And again. If you want to start a new thread about all other formulas, then please do so.