Soldato
hook, line and sinker
Acceptable to hit someone with a whip when they're grabbing your horse?
- Thread starter Participant
- Start date
hook, line and sinker
no?
but any time you go into countryside with a pack of hounds, quads, spades, shotguns, dressed in swanky attire, riding a horse and tooting a horn then, ye, you're going fox hunting. Look, there's plausible deniability that might stand up in a court, because you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they were definitely going fox hunting.. but they ****ing were, weren't they?"I prefer proof instead of assumptions" unless it doesn't suit you.
people banging on about class war, honestly. It's different when the shoe's on the other foot isn't it? I wonder how many of these people stand up to migrant racism..
B@
Caporegime
There's distinct lack of any hounds there...are they going to use dowsing rods to find foxes?
Soldato
Permabanned
The hunt only releases the hounds immediately prior to the start, they don't let them out of the truck until the off and everyone is in place and ready. They are far from domesticated creatures. The more law abiding might hold them in the truck if there actually was likelihood of an actual fox being about. You can't explain to them that they must ignore "real" fox scents and only follow those laid by the drag man. And the unfortunate woman is from an old family of high class hoteliers, no doubt she'll come under the toff banner from the usual Swampy brigade 
Soldato
legitimate self defence for me, she's not used excessive force. He was endangering her bu interfering with the horse as it could easily have panicked, thrown her off and trampled him.
Soldato
- Joined
- 4 Apr 2003
- Posts
- 7,981
The thread title should be 'is it acceptable to grab at someone's horse when they are riding it'
Soldato
I think watch the full video then comment would be better.
Soldato
The hunt only releases the hounds immediately prior to the start, they don't let them out of the truck until the off and everyone is in place and ready. They are far from domesticated creatures. The more law abiding might hold them in the truck if there actually was likelihood of an actual fox being about. You can't explain to them that they must ignore "real" fox scents and only follow those laid by the drag man. And the unfortunate woman is from an old family of high class hoteliers, no doubt she'll come under the toff banner from the usual Swampy brigade
See, this is the essential difference between say AHarvey's posts and Chris Wilson's. The former takes the approach of 'if a forum commenter can't prove something to a degree you'd certainly get a conviction in court I'm going to sit here and just keep saying it might be false as a counter argument.' Whereas Chris Wilson just says 'they were fox hunting and you yobs can **** off if you don't like it'. (paraphrasing).
The latter is somehow more respectable.
(N.b. I'm assuming AHarvey was being disingenuous above. It's possible I suppose that they could just have no familiarity with fox-hunting or the people who do it whatsoever, I guess)
Or perhaps "...when they are riding it at you" as the video clearly shows this.
Man of Honour
That is presumably in an "ideal" scenario where the fox has been chased down but remains on open ground sufficient to allow the hound access to the foxes neck and also makes the supposition that the fox is going to remain stationary enough so that the hound can bite at the back of the neck and break it. I remain to be persuaded that this is the most likely scenario in the real world.
If you want to tell me that the hounds don't intend to cause suffering to the fox and that they do have jaws strong enough to break the foxes neck then sure, I'll get on board with that but any implication that they won't bite or nip at a fox until they've got the chance for a clean one bite death appears to me not to be a tenable one. There, however, seems to be limited evidence about the prevalence (or otherwise) of clean deaths for foxes - there's a Guardian article from 2000 which references a Home Office report here and you can find that report here (paragraphs 54 -61 are the main ones on fox hunting) - it notes that death is not always effected by a single bite dislocating the cervical vertebrae but indeed that in a proportion of cases the cause of death is massive injuries to the chest and vital organs albeit that death usually follows quickly - this does seem to be based on a very limited selection of post mortems, presumably there weren't many offers of fox carcasses for this kind of investigation. It also notes that no method of fox control is without issue from an animal welfare point of view but that hunting does "seriously compromise the welfare of the fox" so while there might be no perfect way to control foxes (in such situations where it might be needed) there are almost certainly degrees of cruelty involved here.
Soldato
Swampy got what he deserved, if only they were as passionate when in the job centre.
Associate
- Joined
- 27 Sep 2011
- Posts
- 1,597
There seems to be bit of confusion between drag vs trail hunting.
Drag hunting is a legitimate sport that dates back hundreds of years and uses an artificial scent such as aniseed which the hounds are specifically trained to pursue. There's no reason to oppose this sort of hunting.
Trail hunting on the other hand has been invented since the ban and uses trained fox hounds to pursue a real scent (from urine) and is carried out in areas where traditionally they hunted live foxes in the past. There's plenty of evidence, expert opinion and failed court cases that suggest trail hunting is nothing more than a cover for the real thing. This is why hunt saboteurs monitor hunts.
Drag hunting is a legitimate sport that dates back hundreds of years and uses an artificial scent such as aniseed which the hounds are specifically trained to pursue. There's no reason to oppose this sort of hunting.
Trail hunting on the other hand has been invented since the ban and uses trained fox hounds to pursue a real scent (from urine) and is carried out in areas where traditionally they hunted live foxes in the past. There's plenty of evidence, expert opinion and failed court cases that suggest trail hunting is nothing more than a cover for the real thing. This is why hunt saboteurs monitor hunts.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 16 Aug 2009
- Posts
- 7,750
Except its not a full video though is it? What about the events that lead up to this that aren't shown? You think this excerpt is the whole story and it hasn't been edited to show one side in a good/bad light?
Soldato
Watched the full/audio untouched version this yesterday - love the 'big brave' protesters, all masked up, as they haven't got the spine to stand up for what they believe - bit like Antifa 
Woman was well within her rights to hit him/her - that horse was going mental with the actions of these scumbags, and I expect she was simply fearing for herself/her horse's welfare. And the comment about being charged by the horse was ******** - the person was already grabbing away before that comment came about.
I'm not in anyway supportive of fox hunting, but on this occasion, I certainly side with the rider.
Woman was well within her rights to hit him/her - that horse was going mental with the actions of these scumbags, and I expect she was simply fearing for herself/her horse's welfare. And the comment about being charged by the horse was ******** - the person was already grabbing away before that comment came about.
I'm not in anyway supportive of fox hunting, but on this occasion, I certainly side with the rider.
Soldato
From what I've read earlier there's supposedly protesters talking about the horse charging them... I can see why the BBC would leave it out, not to further their agenda (I've never seen anything I'd consider pro-hunting on the beeb), but that the protesters would say that and there's no actual evidence of it. If it's truly the case then there should be footage of it. They all had cameras.
Don't like animal hunts at all (not sure this was one?) but she was well in her rights to wallop him.
edit: very next vid from the beeb http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...uiry-over-fox-killing-footage-in-Warwickshire
Hardly pro hunting...