Advice for DIY install of bathroom and waterproofing walls - can I tile a dot and dabbed wall?

Buffman said:
Yeah I considering a raised shower tray but I don't really like them to be honest if they can be avoided.
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They can be made to look good, the raised bit doesnt just need to be white, it can be tiled in to match the walls or floor.

Buffman said:
What do you mean by concealed shower Valve?
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Basically all the pipework is hidden in the walls, the only exposed bit is the lever and shower head.

https://www.bristan.com/concealed-showers
https://www.bristan.com/bar-showers
 
IvanDobskey said:
We had a water feature in the living room every time someone had a shower. Turns out previous owner hadn't bothered tanking the ensuite shower walls before tiling :rolleyes: I fixed it by raking the old cracked grouting out and putting fresh grout in. But I'm going to have to keep a close eye on it now.
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Ah what a pain!

flea.rider said:
why have you got lead pipes ?get rid of them .. by now the leads breaking down .. or at least get a water test .. once lead is in your body it's very hard to get out ..
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They're not lead, it's a mixture of copper and plastic (and nothing tied down/clipped anywhere :eek:
) surprised I don't have more problems with water hammer!

200sols said:
They can be made to look good, the raised bit doesnt just need to be white, it can be tiled in to match the walls or floor.

Basically all the pipework is hidden in the walls, the only exposed bit is the lever and shower head.

https://www.bristan.com/concealed-showers
https://www.bristan.com/bar-showers
Click to expand...

Ah cool yep I know what you mean! Aye those look nice but don't think I need them / will probably just go for standard thermostatic mixer (from a decent brand! - grohe or bristan probably)
 
If it's dot and dab plasterboard I would rip it out, put new batons onto the wall and then board with an appropriate waterproof tiling product. This will also give you a void area to run shower pipework to the mixer.

ABSOLUTELY tank the shower enclosure area at minimum (Walls and under tray). Can get away with not taking areas of the bathroom which are not subjected to persistent moisture or Direct water spray.

I used HardieBacker which is a cement based product and a roll on liquid tanking solution. I had severely uneven walls that were not appropriate for direct application of tile. I built metal framed walls to mount the backing to.

Whatever you do follow the damn manufacturer's installation specifications! Tape and fill board joints, fix at the required centres, stagger board joints etc etc!
 
Simon said:
As above. Can’t go wrong with Marmox in my experience
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sounds good, I might go for the long sheets e.g. the below
https://www.tilefixdirect.com/product/Marmox-Multiboard-Tile-Backer-Insulation-Boards#MX625-125
plus shower niches:
https://www.tilefixdirect.com/product/Marmox-Niches#MXNICHE-4040

Is there anywhere I can buy 100mm sets of timber to stud out one wall? Is C16 grade timber the most suitable for studding out inside a bathroom? Is 600 centred timbers sufficient? (I could just buy the 600 wide boardsx2500 height)


E.g. this for studding out wall

https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/cls...-100mm-finished-size-38mm-x-89mm/p/9000098434
 
Not sure if 12.5mm is ok on 600 centres. But those boards are new size as they didn’t do when o did mine. I have 20mm for walls as bathroom has external walls so wanted a bit better insulation

what do you need to stud the wall for ? Normal c16 is fine for stud but might be losing space vs other options. Like dot and dab to brick
 
200sols said:
C16 is fine. Really no need for the big boards, you will still need waterproofing tape anyway. Use silicone or multibond between boards and then tape. I use jackoboards now, they are cheaper and just as good. https://www.protilertools.co.uk/pro...mm-x-600mm--choice-of-thickness---individual- I prefer this shop as well, always good service.
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Protilertools are a great company to deal with, If you have a N&C tiles (Nicobond) near to you I've used their backer board on all my bathrooms and they come in cheaper than Jackoboard, they also do a wet room tape for the joints, I've used 10mm backer on 9mm OSB3.
 
To give this thread a bit of an update, I've finally taken the plaster off, as I'm renovating the rest of the house (most recently having the back end structural wall taken out) this has been on the back burner.

I think I'll go for that jackoboard referenced earlier. Is 12.5mm OK for dot and dab? (should I go thinner?) I've read you need minimum 20mm boards for 600mm wide stud walls, but i have a very small section of stud wall 400mm wide. Will that be OK?

Can jackoboard also be used instead of hardie backer on the floor or is hardiebacker better?


The dot and dab adhesive was strong! Plumber is coming Tuesday and sorting out the pipework under the old bath and chasing pipework in for the shower.

GOhEWu9.jpeg
 
Buffman said:
Can jackoboard also be used instead of hardie backer on the floor or is hardiebacker better?
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I would use 6mm hardibacker. Use a rapid set tile adhesive on the floor using a 6mm trowel and also mechanically fix (screw) the boards to the floor.

Buffman said:
I think I'll go for that jackoboard referenced earlier. Is 12.5mm OK for dot and dab? (should I go thinner?) I've read you need minimum 20mm boards for 600mm wide stud walls, but i have a very small section of stud wall 400mm wide. Will that be OK?
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400mm gap will be fine for 12.5mm boards, I belive you can dot n dab any thickness of board. For dot n dab you want a rapid set tile adhesive (powder) 5 dabs per board, once it has set you drill them out through to the brick and use a dowel to also mechanically fix them to the wall. Marmox have a guide. Looks like you have a nice easy wall to board out there.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...4QFnoECAgQAg&usg=AOvVaw1nBsjGzHx1Q502WaRVmLWt
 
200sols said:
I would use 6mm hardibacker.
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Cool how come you prefer hardie backer to marmox or jackoboards?

Does the hardie backer need to be glued and screwed to the chipboard floor? I think my last house my plumber just screwed it. (possibly a bodge!) only thing is I'll need to use short screws as my floor is full of pipes and cables.
 
Buffman said:
Cool how come you prefer hardie backer to marmox or jackoboards?

Does the hardie backer need to be glued and screwed to the chipboard floor? I think my last house my plumber just screwed it. (possibly a bodge!) only thing is I'll need to use short screws as my floor is full of pipes and cables.
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Probably its just what I have used and know works 100% for decoupling the floor.

For fitting you need to use a rapid set tile adhesive onto the floor to take any unevenness of the floor, it isnt used to stick it down. You must fix with screws as well, like you say not too long so they don't go.through the chipboard. The hardie boards have pre defined markings of where to screw.
 
I used 12.5mm aqua board dot and dabbed onto brick.
Tanked with mapei tanking kit and not had any issues.
All hold heavy marble with no issues

tanking.jpeg


EF84D32A3C614BE1A3FE.jpeg
 
I spoke with Jackoboard direct when I did my bathrooms, I have a timber frame with every wall overlaid with 9mm OSB 3 (moisture resistant) and queried the 20mm thickness and I was told 10mm was fine over the 9mm OSB, 20mm is quoted due to only catching the studs whereas I would be able to fix between studs on the OSB, so 10-12.5mm should be fine for you, I wouldn't dot and dab though I'd go 10mm trowel plus mechanical fixing to be certain.

I didn't use Jackoboard in the end, I went with Nicobond 10mm board for walls and 6mm for floors, came in a lot cheaper. I then used their tanking tape in wet areas to cover the joints no need to be tanked or sealed.
 
  • Do people tend to run water proof boards down to floor then have the shower tray installed up to these with tiles on top?
  • Do people tend to put backer boards underneath the shower tray e.g. Hardie backer?
  • Is fixing the shower tray down with tile adhesive best bet? Could use the same adhesive I dot and dab boards with?
  • Whats the best adhesive to dab the jackoboards to wall with?

Are there any good websites for tips on this?

Also - had my pipework sorted by my plumber yesterday so (almost) ready to put floor down. Bought some 18mm waterproof chipboard for the base.

Thinking of going for this tray (possibly in 1400 by 800 size)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-flight-safe-rectangular-shower-tray-white-1400-x-760-x-40mm/5622x
 
Buffman said:
  • Do people tend to run water proof boards down to floor then have the shower tray installed up to these with tiles on top?
  • Do people tend to put backer boards underneath the shower tray e.g. Hardie backer?
  • Is fixing the shower tray down with tile adhesive best bet? Could use the same adhesive I dot and dab boards with?
  • Whats the best adhesive to dab the jackoboards to wall with?
Are there any good websites for tips on this?

Also - had my pipework sorted by my plumber yesterday so (almost) ready to put floor down. Bought some 18mm waterproof chipboard for the base.

Thinking of going for this tray (possibly in 1400 by 800 size)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-flight-safe-rectangular-shower-tray-white-1400-x-760-x-40mm/5622x
Click to expand...

It depends, when I did my en-suite, the area where the shower tray went was only 121cm between the studs so a 120cm shower tray was slightly recessed into the wall boards (marmox) on both sides. It’s a very right room!

I made sure to use a waterproofing membrane between the back of the marmox board and the sides of the shower tray to ensure and leaks are contained in the tray. The gap between the tray and the marmox was then sealed before a final finish (shower panels) and final seal was put on top.

In total there are 3 layers of leak protection between the walls of the shower and the tray of the shower.

If the gap for the tray was wider the marmox boards would have been fitted to the floor on both sides and the seal between the tray and the shower would have been put on the front/inside rather than the back/outside (hope that makes sense!).

I didn’t put any marmox on the floor. There want any need to raise the floor level and it was already solid and smooth. It being solid and flat is very important though.

I stuck our shower tray (plastic) down with good amount silicone, it isn’t going anywhere and good luck to whoever needs to remove it. I’d follow the instructions from the manufacturer for the tray and the surface it’s being stuck to.

I would have thought the manufacturer for jackoboards would recommend a specific product, otherwise standard dot dab adhesive will do the job.

Edit: I’ve got that tray in 120 x 70(maybe 75!?). It’s very low profile which is exactly what we wanted.

As with any low profile tray just make sure your drainage is good and flows properly. If there is any backing up from a blockage, even a small partial one if you have a high flow shower, you’ll over flow the tray in seconds as it only holds a few of litres of water.
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
It depends, when I did my en-suite, the area where the shower tray went was only 121cm between the studs so a 120cm shower tray was slightly recessed into the wall boards (marmox) on both sides. It’s a very right room!

I made sure to use a waterproofing membrane between the back of the marmox board and the sides of the shower tray to ensure and leaks are contained in the tray. The gap between the tray and the marmox was then sealed before a final finish (shower panels) and final seal was put on top.

In total there are 3 layers of leak protection between the walls of the shower and the tray of the shower.

If the gap for the tray was wider the marmox boards would have been fitted to the floor on both sides and the seal between the tray and the shower would have been put on the front/inside rather than the back/outside (hope that makes sense!).

I didn’t put any marmox on the floor. There want any need to raise the floor level and it was already solid and smooth. It being solid and flat is very important though.

I stuck our shower tray (plastic) down with good amount silicone, it isn’t going anywhere and good luck to whoever needs to remove it. I’d follow the instructions from the manufacturer for the tray and the surface it’s being stuck to.

I would have thought the manufacturer for jackoboards would recommend a specific product, otherwise standard dot dab adhesive will do the job.

Edit: I’ve got that tray in 120 x 70(maybe 75!?). It’s very low profile which is exactly what we wanted.

As with any low profile tray just make sure your drainage is good and flows properly. If there is any backing up from a blockage, even a small partial one if you have a high flow shower, you’ll over flow the tray in seconds as it only holds a few of litres of water.
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Ah cool, yup I have a just over 1400 gap (pics below). I think i might put waterproof boards over the already 2 layers of plasterboard to bring it tight to 1400 so the shower is well enclosed.

Ah cool, for the tray I paid extra to get the "antislip" version.

Im also thinking about putting shower niches in this side. It's only 70mm deep stud wall but plus the 2 layers total 25mm of plasterboard that's 95mm ish.

Its the main family bathroom upstairs but very tight!

Ive just bought this bath and also a 10mm screen (nearly £1k just on bath and shower + screen!)
https://www.drench.co.uk/p/armourca...rcast-bloque-1400mm-x-700mm-single-ended-bath

Thinking about shower recesses/niches in red here, back of stud wall in other pics below.

FhRwmYh.jpeg

E6MM5J4.jpeg

2TptVqW.jpeg
 
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