Afghanistan - 20 years on

[OspreyO]

Well bush and trump are gone so less psychopathic nation hopefully but you never know that could just be the surface it may change again in a few years.

We are and have been existing with them for years the only difference now is you are made to see more of the one that are gaining more power. and some psychopathic nation you just ignore.

just look at Ukraine now? look at Crimea a few years ago, Hong Kong just look at the middle east over the last 20 - 30 years, look at Africa, Palestine, Kashmir over the decades I can go on, it just what you are made to see and want to see.

You have a lot psychopathic nations and dictatorships to deal with but how many will the US continue to support. but to be honest they could have dealt with a lot of them if they wanted they just don't want to.

Somehow you managed to make it the US fault if they don't do anything. But also their fault if they do anything.

Nice catch 22.

The solution is to move somewhere away from US influence and democracy in general. Then you'll have nothing to complain about and be unable to complain about it even if you. Solving both problems.

 

[2013]

Before the US got involved in Afghanistan.

Pakistan helped create the Taliban and have always supported them. However thats a double edged sword, because the Taliban have claims on Pakistan territory.

So did the US, I guess Pakistan leaned from the best teacher.

The US CIA funnelled funding and equipment through the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence Agency (ISI) to the Afghan

In an effort to aid the anti-Soviet insurgency and inculcate a hatred of foreign invaders in Afghan children, the US government covertly distributed schoolbooks which promoted militant Islamic teachings and included images of weapons and soldiers. The Taliban used the American textbooks


But in all honesty this is not good the world is run by ******** and the biggest ******** have the most power and other follow, unless people start to change we are all headed for ****.

 

[2013]

Somehow you managed to make it the US fault if they don't do anything. But also their fault if they do anything. Nice catch 22. The solution is to move somewhere away from US influence and democracy in general. Then you'll have nothing to complain about and be unable to complain about it even if you. Solving both problems.

And what's wrong in that ? its true.

The US marched in to the Middle that's because they wanted to go to the middle east and left it worse than ever, sending us all back a few decades and rise in hatred, racism and a migrant crisis.

It even boldened China and Russia etc, its a example if nothing happened to the US they could do the same but did not go 100s of miles away.

They only seam to get involved when it benefits them, they don't do it if it does not, if they did everything because it was right and in the intrest of the world, do you think you would see the world like this with all the issues in all them places?
Crimea a few years ago, Hong Kong, middle east, Africa, Palestine, Kashmir over the decades. Forget all else if they helped a bit in South America they would not have a big migrant problem on the Mexican boarder and no need for a wall or as many guards but they ignore it.

Are you denying The US has been and is backing a lot of the Nations and dictatorships up ?

changed of regime over time when they are not happy, some for the better some not so much.

Ok What has the US Done in the last 22 years for the better ?

Only creating more hate and racism and trump was one of the examples. another is huge example is Ukraine I'm proud everyone inc myself are helping them and are able to better than before for them but the double standards and treatment is obvious.

 

[OspreyO]

So did the US, I guess Pakistan leaned from the best teacher.

The US CIA funnelled funding and equipment through the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence Agency (ISI) to the Afghan

In an effort to aid the anti-Soviet insurgency and inculcate a hatred of foreign invaders in Afghan children, the US government covertly distributed schoolbooks which promoted militant Islamic teachings and included images of weapons and soldiers. The Taliban used the American textbooks


But in all honesty this is not good the world is run by ******** and the biggest ******** have the most power and other follow, unless people start to change we are all headed for ****.

Pakistan and Afghanistan have been funding each others insurgents since 1947. Long before the US was ever near the place. Afghan had been kicking out invaders for centuries.

 

[OspreyO]

And what's wrong in that ? its true.

The US marched in to the Middle that's because they wanted to go to the middle east and left it worse than ever, sending us all back a few decades and rise in hatred, racism and a migrant crisis.

It even boldened China and Russia etc, its a example if nothing happened to the US they could do the same but did not go 100s of miles away.

They only seam to get involved when it benefits them, they don't do it if it does not, if they did everything because it was right and in the intrest of the world, do you think you would see the world like this with all the issues in all them places?
Crimea a few years ago, Hong Kong, middle east, Africa, Palestine, Kashmir over the decades. Forget all else if they helped a bit in South America they would not have a big migrant problem on the Mexican boarder and no need for a wall or as many guards but they ignore it.

Are you denying The US has been and is backing a lot of the Nations and dictatorships up ?

changed of regime over time when they are not happy, some for the better some not so much.

Ok What has the US Done in the last 22 years for the better ?

Only creating more hate and racism and trump was one of the examples. another is huge example is Ukraine I'm proud everyone inc myself are helping them and are able to better than before for them but the double standards and treatment is obvious.

What's wrong is that is gibberish.

Yes the US is to blame for everything in the world, even before it existed, perhaps even the Extinction of the Dinosaurs. Makes perfect sense.

 

[2013]

What's wrong is that is gibberish.

Yes the US is to blame for everything in the world, even before it existed, perhaps even the Extinction of the Dinosaurs. Makes perfect sense.

Thanks but the last few lines of your last reply helped me understand everything I needed to know. so I wont bother anymore.

 

[RoboCod]

sounds like bs. There was quite a bit of gap between the 1st and 2nd bombs where Japan was asked to surrender they refused

A simple search will reveal many articles suggesting that the overwhelming evidence is it's anything but BS. I've seen countless documentaries about this too. I thought that information was pretty common place now? Maybe not.

The gap was less than 3 days.

E: Here are some contrasting view points from people who are much more versed on the matter than you or I

https://www.historyextra.com/period...bombs-death-toll-japan-how-many-died-nuclear/

 

[OspreyO]

A simple search will reveal many articles suggesting that the overwhelming evidence is it's anything but BS. I've seen countless documentaries about this too. I thought that information was pretty common place now? Maybe not.

The gap was less than 3 days.

E: Here are some contrasting view points from people who are much more versed on the matter than you or I

https://www.historyextra.com/period...bombs-death-toll-japan-how-many-died-nuclear/

You have to register to read that. But arguments against the atomic bombs are well known.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

But they rely on information the allies didn't have at the time. One suggestion it was the Russians coming into the war, but the Japanese didn't surrender immediately after that. Another is they could starved the Japanese into surrender. Unlikely based on their experiences to date. Another is they could have conventionally firebombed bombed and achieved the same objective.

But all those would have caused greater loss of life and destruction than the atomic bombs did. So from a humanitarian point of view it's kinda moot.

In the end we'll never know. It's probably not one thing but a combination of factors. It changed our world. But even they hadn't dropped it, they couldn't uninvent it.

There's a good book called Nemesis: The Battle for Japan, 1944-45. by Max Hasting that covers a lot of this.

 

[OspreyO]

In terms of Afghanistan. The allies involvement was respite from the Taliban. But its Pakistan keeping the Taliban going. They'll have to deal with them themselves now. If the Taliban consume Pakistan there's an interesting dilemma.

 

[Johno please?]

Yes Pakistan had a huge hand in the conflict, in backing up the US, but they always need scapegoats for this reason, they lost now they can blame others.

Which maybe why Pakistan is not turning to others.

Say what you like about Bush and Trump, but neither are dictators

"backing up the US" Uhhh, not really thats why the worlds most wanted religious fascist was found in their backyard....I get the feeling you dont really know what youre talking about.

This is a good article, its long but worth a read - https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/who-responsible-taliban

 

[Hagar]

Afghanistan was a western looking, liberal society in the nineteen sixties. Then the clerics took over again, nothing to do with the USA at the time just some medieval interpretations of dress and behaviour by sad inadequate men.

 

[Rroff]

"backing up the US" Uhhh, not really thats why the worlds most wanted religious fascist was found in their backyard....I get the feeling you dont really know what youre talking about.

This is a good article, its long but worth a read - https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/who-responsible-taliban

Pakistan and the US have a hugely complex relationship and like Turkey they routinely play both/all sides and usually are too important strategically to lean on them too hard for it.

 

[2013]

Not everything is black and white how its made out to be, not everything you are told is true, if we blindly follow things don't turn out well, look at the past history.

We got told the war in Afghanistan, Iraq etc was a good
We are told the war in Ukraine is bad
Why, what's the difference ?

All Wars are bad

Say what you like about Bush and Trump, but neither are dictators

"backing up the US" Uhhh, not really thats why the worlds most wanted religious fascist was found in their backyard....I get the feeling you dont really know what youre talking about.

This is a good article, its long but worth a read - https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/who-responsible-taliban

Really, Are you sure about that ?
Did bush not destroy a number of countries also a few other things just because he wanted ? he had the power to do it.
Where is that power now when its needed?

As for trump did you see the huge protest at the white house and everything else during his term ??


*the religious fascist was found in their backyard* All we know is what we got told we never got any real proof, it could be true but we don't know for sure 100%, (Boris said he was never at a party)

how would you know if someone is smuggled in, even the US does not know who comes it to their backyard with all the high tech. CCTV. boarders etc so on, how do you expect a place like Pakistan ?

If true Pakistan should have done better and dealt with it.

Afghanistan was a western looking, liberal society in the nineteen sixties. Then the clerics took over again, nothing to do with the USA at the time just some medieval interpretations of dress and behaviour by sad inadequate men.

I think the change started during and after the Soviet–Afghan War it could have changed back we don't know but I do know the US had a hand making it worse even if people don't believe it, its the same for every other place they destroyed over the years,

Hopefully thing become better and the they can go back to how thing had been in the past for them 60s, long road ahead.

You know how things work, years of death, destruction, struggle, no finance, no hope and hatred can make people change for the worse and/or gives people with influence a lot of people to groom and manipulate

Just think about the US independence why it happened, what would happen if the same happened here in the UK or any other western nation?
Look at Ukraine and the war has only been on going a month and we have seen a lot more of whats happening.

Then you have the other issues that happened in the prisons and then you Guantanamo Bay and all of the issues connected with that. that was a breading ground for hated that created more issues ISIS for example

People with Power influence can manipulate people and things that's what I think.

after this war in Ukraine the people of Ukrainian will hate Russia for years to come and we will see some issues. its no different to Afghanistan other the time.

Hopefully this war end quickly.

Pakistan and the US have a hugely complex relationship and like Turkey they routinely play both/all sides and usually are too important strategically to lean on them too hard for it.

That is true but that can be said about a lot of places including the US.
they may have played both sides but that does not mean they also did not help the US.

Yes, hugely complex but I can also see one point of the other side, they share a boarder and they need to live with everything everyday, they already had some attacks, the US and everyone else does not, If they can kick the US army's ass what would happen to them and it people, its not a first world nation??

Would the US come to its defence ?

 

[Hagar]

@2013

It is the dodgy religious interpretations enforced at gunpoint that is the issue.

 

[2013]

@2013

It is the dodgy religious interpretations enforced at gunpoint that is the issue.

Your 100% right its the dodgy religious interpretations people are forced to believe by other people. which was made a lot easier because of the war.

That's what I meant years of death, destruction, struggle, no finance, no hope and hatred can make people change for the worse and/or gives people with influence a lot of people to groom and manipulate. If they are uneducated, don't know anything else only know what they are told, that's what happens. If not only a few people would pay attention to them.

22 years is a long time, from birth to adulthood that's all they knew, This is what I meant made things worse.

Hope is things change, the country is reconstructed, people don't struggle, can live happier lives and get educated to know better to help themselves and the other people.

 

[Johno please?]

We got told the war in Afghanistan, Iraq etc was a good
We are told the war in Ukraine is bad
Why, what's the difference ?

All Wars are bad

*the religious fascist was found in their backyard* All we know is what we got told we never got any real proof, it could be true but we don't know for sure 100%, (Boris said he was never at a party)

Yea I guess Bin Laden is sunning himself on a beach somewhere then...funny how hes not been heard of since though isnt it.

If you can't tell the difference between the two wars in Iraq, (starting in 1990) and Russias attempted annexation of Ukraine then I don't know what to say. Whats happening now is very similar to Saddams attempt to annex Kuwait, not the invasion that actually removed him from power.

 

[2013]

Yea I guess Bin Laden is sunning himself on a beach somewhere then...funny how hes not been heard of since though isnt it.

If you can't tell the difference between the two wars in Iraq, (starting in 1990) and Russias attempted annexation of Ukraine then I don't know what to say. Whats happening now is very similar to Saddams attempt to annex Kuwait, not the invasion that actually removed him from power.

We had not heard from Bin Laden in years before that, he could have already been dead for all you know.

I don't know what to say to you, if you see difference in wars, you must really not care or you see some other differences, A war is a war it does not matter unless you have no other choice, innocent people get dragged in and can also cause more issues than to just to that country. example the migrant crisis.


The Iraq war I'm was talking about started in 2003 not 1990 *the missing WOMD*
One was 100s of miles away from the attacker the other is on the boarder.
one is going on for a month other went on for years.
one was attracted by the US the other was attacked by Russia
but both have the same reason

Russia Is trying the same thing as the US and making excuses and blaming Ukraine with different things, the same way because The US got away with it

How/what is this the difference ?
is it because we are told to, we see it on TV/news all the time?
is it because we are told Ukraine is the innocent party defending itself but not in other wars?
is it because its Russia that's attacking not the US?
is it because its Ukraine ?
is it because they not of colour ?

Much much more people are have a issue with this and are up in arms, which is good thing, thank god for the change in people but why only this? why are we still ignoring the other migrant crisis, wars and other issues ?


Should it make a difference ?
ignore Wars because of race or religion should not be a reason
most of the time Racism does play a factor subtle or obvious, people try and defend things but can still be seen.



I hope people don't repeat the past, stand up and help Ukraine support them if possible.

 

[StriderX]

Maybe the difference is that Iraq was run by a dictator and Ukraine is not? Fact is that none of this really matters as the immediate present always takes precedence over worrying about hypocrisy.

 

[2013]

Maybe the difference is that Iraq was run by a dictator and Ukraine is not? Fact is that none of this really matters as the immediate present always takes precedence over worrying about hypocrisy.

if that's the case can we do something about the rest then or is it pick and choose??

I agree none of this really matters as the immediate present always takes precedence so ill move on because this is not helpful, if I don't reply that will be the reason why but hypocrisy and racism is something that should not be ignored.

 

[Johno please?]

We had not heard from Bin Laden in years before that, he could have already been dead for all you know.

I don't know what to say to you, if you see difference in wars, you must really not care or you see some other differences, A war is a war it does not matter unless you have no other choice, innocent people get dragged in and can also cause more issues than to just to that country. example the migrant crisis.


The Iraq war I'm was talking about started in 2003 not 1990 *the missing WOMD*
One was 100s of miles away from the attacker the other is on the boarder.
one is going on for a month other went on for years.
one was attracted by the US the other was attacked by Russia
but both have the same reason

Yea I guess he died of kidney failure then and the Americans launched a risky operation for fun

OK il explain the difference between Russia trying to annex a sovereign state and the intervention to remove a mafia style family from running a country...

Is ukraine run by a fascist dictator?
Has ukraine used chemical weapons against its neighbours?
Has ukraine commited genocide?
Have they tried to annex a neighbouring state?
Is ukraine subject to numerous UN security council resolutions?

No to all the above. Do you get it now?