Afghanistan - 20 years on

ltron said:
I can't believe we didn't negotiate a peace deal before leaving and with neighbouring countries so that if they breach it there is the threat of military force from them and us (maybe I'm naive to think this was possible) and we wasted all that time and money on training and equipping the Afghan military (poorly it seems) and they just flee, I seem to remember that the same happened in Iraq with their military when Isis was taking over parts of the country. Not providing air support is irresponsible, the Afghan government have asked for this after all.

I am in favour of ending wars instead of letting them drag on forever (and only using war as a last resort, I don't think it's a good way of resolving problems and costs a lot in terms of lives, time and money), but there are things we can do to make sure it's not a disaster and we don't leave them in the lurch.
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I don't think a peace treaty amongst neighbours is even possible. They all pretty much hate each other as much as they hate the West.

I don't know what it is about the Afghan army, but you've clearly got a load of scared young men who are woefully trained, and in effect have been defended from the Taliban by US and allies for the last 20 years. Its hardly surprising that they're getting blown over with a slight breeze. The Taliban don't fear death, they'll just send fighter after fighter at the Afghan army until there's no army left.

I do feel sorry for them. It's also unlikely that the West will do a u-turn and go back to defend them. They're pretty much on their own now.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
It’s an endless circle for these nations, but not to worry, China is on hand to invest in their infrastructure out of the goodness of their hearts.
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Makes me laugh, here you have China and it's Muslim concentration camps on one hand then you have all these Muslim states sucking up to them!
The west kill one Muslim, no matter how and they want to kill us all..
Maybe we needed to stay for much longer, try and ingrain a different way of thinking, but that would take a generation or two.
 
Think the door is being nailed shut now, latest gov update is basically any British nationals still there get out now by commercial means...

Other words, we will be locking the door on our way out now. Not sure civvi wise who would still be there, maybe a few contractors kicking about.

Sure as hell just something else that will end up full circle upon us at some point in the future. Again.
 
How is the media (or at least the BBC as it's the only news site I really use) not mentioning how we are entirely complicit in every death and every life ruined as the Taliban take control?

We should never have been in that country, really, but to just leave like this and be like 'oh dear, that's a shame' is ******* disgusting.
 
I don't want to derail the thread, but the reality is as much as we would like to we simply cannot solve the worlds problems. Some cultures and states seem to be incapable of self governing in what we would say was an orderly manner.
Having said that Afghanistan is in a strategic location and as such there has always been a struggle for control.
 
godinman said:
How is the media (or at least the BBC as it's the only news site I really use) not mentioning how we are entirely complicit in every death and every life ruined as the Taliban take control?

We should never have been in that country, really, but to just leave like this and be like 'oh dear, that's a shame' is ******* disgusting.
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Who is this 'we'. The UK pulled all combat troops out seven years ago, back in 2014.
 
We scaled back from a "combat" role end of 2014, but we have definitely have been present since.. and present in more ways that meets the eye for sure.

But I guess we follow the US, it is a total shame we have effectively fled in the blick of an eye and for sure we have pretty much abandoned the whole thing. You can easily argue we should never of gone there to begin with, but we did and we invested so much to just run away is shameful.

As usual, though, the public will cry for a few days then forget about it and for people to start saying now we should reconsider is typical, no one cared or even wanted us to be there for many years but as soon as we do a runner it's all about how we should "do more"?

I mean, what exactly? apart from ploughing a lot more money and resources into the country for at least a generation, there is 0 point.
 
ltron said:
I can't believe we didn't negotiate a peace deal before leaving and with neighbouring countries so that if they breach it there is the threat of military force from them and us (maybe I'm naive to think this was possible) and we wasted all that time and money on training and equipping the Afghan military (poorly it seems) and they just flee, I seem to remember that the same happened in Iraq with their military when Isis was taking over parts of the country. Not providing air support is irresponsible, the Afghan government have asked for this after all.

I am in favour of ending wars instead of letting them drag on forever (and only using war as a last resort, I don't think it's a good way of resolving problems and costs a lot in terms of lives, time and money), but there are things we can do to make sure it's not a disaster and we don't leave them in the lurch.
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How would that work?


“If you try to take back your country again we’ll come back?”


They’re kids grow up there not ours so there’s always going to be more motivation for them than us
 
Malevolence said:
Who is this 'we'. The UK pulled all combat troops out seven years ago, back in 2014.
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Malevolence said:
Who is this 'we'. The UK pulled all combat troops out seven years ago, back in 2014.
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13 years after entering?

to put the Afghanistan war in context US troops who were born to fathers serving there are now being deployed there
literally an inter generational war for nothing
 
Half of the problem is the corrupt Kabul regime. They haven't really the support of much of the population outside a few big cities.

The population is mostly illiterate, half of them if not more support the Taliban.

ANA is a joke, they will surrender as half of them don't want to fight they're muslim brothers especially if they're the same ethnicity.

20 years what a waste of money and lives.

Makes me laugh seeing Afghans in the UK blaming Pakistan for all the woes of Afghanistan. They fought each other for years before the Taliban took over.

And Pak will support Taliban especially after the kabulis bending over to the Indians.
 
Slam62 said:
I don't want to derail the thread, but the reality is as much as we would like to we simply cannot solve the worlds problems. Some cultures and states seem to be incapable of self governing in what we would say was an orderly manner.
Having said that Afghanistan is in a strategic location and as such there has always been a struggle for control.
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Problem is as well there was no real vision for what happened after the fighting - there was some attempt to train up the ANA, some half-hearted attempts to support local populations but mostly in attempts to implement American ideals rather than understand the problems they were facing.

The British made some effort to try and support redevelopment in local areas, support local business projects and farming, improve education and health services and other stuff like postal services, etc. which was generally well received but it was all abandoned without ceremony when we pulled out and the Taliban quickly moved back in.
 
Slam62 said:
Are the Russians arming the taliban ? They normally arm anyone who is against the US
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The americans armed the Taliban during the Russian period and they forced the russians to quit, I can't imagine the russians would do the same out of pique if nothing else but this is Putin we're talking about so anythings possible.

Rroff said:
Problem is as well there was no real vision for what happened after the fighting - there was some attempt to train up the ANA, some half-hearted attempts to support local populations but mostly in attempts to implement American ideals rather than understand the problems they were facing.

The British made some effort to try and support redevelopment in local areas, support local business projects and farming, improve education and health services and other stuff like postal services, etc. which was generally well received but it was all abandoned without ceremony when we pulled out and the Taliban quickly moved back in.
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Americans didn't even engage with the locals other than their own puppet govt american bases are walled off zones of little america nothing is allowed to interfere with the hermetic seal. Even their bases here are the same complete with american shops and baseball courts
 
We was never going to beat the Taliban. It was their home ground. They have no where else to go.

The West initially did a deal with the Taliban to build an oil pipe line through Afganistan. Then Bin Laden happened, who convinced them to get a better deal or stop negotiation. Then 9/11 happened and the Taliban ended up protecting Bin Laden for a while. The US doesn't like people or groups that turn against it.

So we've spent 20 years fighting to a stand still. I feel sorry for all the soldiers lives lost, and the civilians lives lost, during a conflict that should have ended when Bin Laden was killed.
 
We were not heavy handed enough with the taliban. We should have gone in to wipe them out, not to simply stop them and change the regime.

Now they will take over again and Afghanistan will become a failed state run by terrorists. If they poke one of the major powers again now what happens? They just nuke them instead, because it's not worth invading again?

Slam62 said:
Are the Russians arming the taliban ? They normally arm anyone who is against the US
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The Russians armed everyone. Why do you think they all have Russian weapons?
 
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